Calling all Spartacus! Jenni needs us!

[iloveruby]

Am shamelessly posting in AIBU for traffic.

On Sunday Jenni Murray from woman's hour wrote an article saying that transwomen aren't women.

Full article here: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-females-can-never-be-real-women-says-jenni-murray-ht0xhcvrs

In light of the inevitable backlash that Jenni will / is receiving there are a number of efforts to show our support for her.

One of which is co-signing a letter to the BBC. The letter is below and anyone who would like to add their support please message me with your name and you will be added.

"There will undoubtedly be calls for Jenni Murray to leave her position with the BBC following her article of 5th March in the Sunday Times about trans women.
Whether her comments were ‘hurtful’ as Stonewall claim is irrelevant. Murray was bravely sharing her experience as a woman, a feminist and a broadcaster who has navigated a male-dominated society to enjoy a successful career.
Of course trans women have their own hurdles, but those who have spent their formative years as men will not understand the impact of the casual and institutional sexism that women are born into. That some trans women feel justified in wanting to silence Murray speaks volumes about the reality of the different ways men and women are taught and expected to behave.
It is perhaps noteworthy that Murray has made these remarks at the age of 66 with a robust and respected career to bolster her. How many others share her thoughts but are prevented from speaking out for fear of causing offence and sparking a hostile reaction?
To date the BBC has been remiss in its duty to 'educate, inform and entertain’ regarding the ideology behind gender identity. It seems the lobbying activities of groups such as Stonewall and Transmedia Watch have stymied debate, and vilified those who do not share the same viewpoint.
We stand in support of Jenni Murray, and in support of free speech. Please do not cave into the demands to end Murray’s career. The BBC has few older women in positions of seniority, and it would be to the detriment of both audiences and the reputation of the BBC if you were to remove her from post.
Yours"

I am not the author of the letter - that is an amazing women on facebook called Maggie who has organised this.

If anyone would like to add their name directly via facebook let me know and I will send you the link.

I am Spartacus! I am Jenni!

I believe that all trans people deserve respect and the pronoun of their choice. I do not believe they can change their basic biology or the lifelong socialisation they've experienced as a result of that biology.

This is very well put.

I didn't read the full article but the review of it I watched emphasised that she had been at pains to acknowledge the particular challenges faced by trans* people but that she felt it was impossible for someone born male to understand what it means to be a woman in terms of socialisation etc.

I've submitted the letter as a complaint to the BBC. I don't always agree with Jenni Murray - but she's spot on with this, and for her to be reprimanded like a naughty child demonstrates just how the BBC sees the position of women..!

I emailed the BBC and Woman's Hour in support of Jenni Murray on Sunday and I've made a formal complaint this morning about the news that she's been reprimanded and reminded to be impartial on controversial issues. I pointed out that John Humphrys made a controversial remark on Today* yesterday and that if JM needs a reminder I hope all the male presenters being controversial will get the same treatment.

He suggested that Thomas Mair, Jo Cox's murderer, was not a terrorist because he was mentally ill. Fortunately the judge in the case did not agree. Here's a link to a very good Twitter discussion of the legal side of this from @BarristerSecret*.

I note that NotCaryl has dumped and run.

Quelle fucking surprise. The well worn tactic of run in, shout 'nasty horrid bitches' and run out again. Logic? Actual argument? Screw that.

OP, I will complain directly to the BBC, though I will shamelessly pinch some ideas from the letter.

this whole ridiculous debate is the invisible golden suit for our times.

thank you Jenni Murray for admitting you can't see the Emperors New Clothes, either.

Still not seen a definition of a 'real' woman but I suppose that's not entirely relevant.

Kellie maloney is an example when the lines blur for late transitioning, she is referred to as a boxing promoter but her achievements were under Frank, she presented as a male and was treated as such in a male dominated field. Although she may of felt like a woman she was never treated as such. She is knowledgeable in her experience of suppressing but being treated as a woman in a work place and building a career that is male prominent is not an experience she has had or ever will. Frank created the platform that Kellie has. DP and myself are both ex military if he was tomorrow to identify as a woman, he would never have experience of the military as a woman or the rest of his fifty years.

I like the way India insists she never had any male privilege. Yet she was in a job where if female she would have been judged for her dress sense and sexual attractiveness if she had been living female when she applied. She didn't, she got her job as a man without having to worry too much about appearance or age/attractiveness. The fact she doesn't see this for the male privilege it is shows just why Murray has a point.

Murray made a point about trans women being a male view of what a woman should be too. I thought that was interesting looking through the tweets. I could instantly tell the trans women without looking at the pictures because they had the sort of names strippers and hookers use as pseudonyms. Very revealing IMO.

I also suspect India's special status as a trans woman means she won't be shunted off screen when she hits 50 either.

link please? i have complained to the BBC

The interview with Julie Bindel/Jane Fae really showed up the lack of logic and smoke and mirrors tactics.

Jane Fae tried to use what Germaine Greer had said, but was shot down by the interviewer. She also said that because Jenni had used the word 'real' that she, Jenni actually meant 'right' - again the interviewer said er, no she didn't. She then said that because Jenni was married with children, what she actually meant was you can only be a real woman if you are married with children (unbelievably thick thing to say). Again, the interviewer said no she didn't.

The ONLY justification she came up with in the entire interview was that women have 'different experiences' implying that her experience as a man is just a different woman's experience.

Stonewall's justification is 'it's an innate sense of self'. Okaaay then.

And if one more fucking person says that the discrimination and trauma transwomen go through when trying to make people believe they are women, is the reason, the actual reason why they are women and why they should be treated as such, access women's spaces redefine women and compete against them, my head will explode.

Emailed BBC directly, using the above linked complaint form.

Could I please have the Facebook link?

I've emailed WH and made a complaint to the BBC this morning.

Complaint to BBC about their of treatment JM, sent just now.

I used to think this video about the spaghetti harvest was a joke:

However, I am now forced to believe that the BBC doesn't know anything about biology.

What can I do as German to make them see sense?

Should I congratulate them for silencing Jenni Murray and on the biological accuracy of both their revelation that men can be women and the piece about the spaghetti harvest in Switzerland?

'No doubt Jenni will retire in time and she'll be replaced with a giggling, simpering fool who'll be instructing us all to dye our hair and paint our nails and how we shouldn't be worrying our silly heads with things like womens rights'

You've met people in their twenties, right? The most feminist generation in decades?

You've met people in their twenties, right? The most feminist generation in decades?

Is that a joke?

It would be great if it were true, though. And i do sense a slight resurgence compared to 10 years ago.

You've met people in their twenties, right? The most feminist generation in decades?

Since when were women in their 20s making recruitment decisions for the BBC?

People in their 20s, particularly women, are just at the beginning of a lifetime of sexism. It gets worse as your biology kicks in to do its job.

A lot of the young women I see online are idealistic (as youth tends to be), are interested, very much, in women's rights, until it comes to transgenderism. They simply fail outright to see the misogyny. Ones misogyny radar tends to get more and more refined as one gets older.

I've complained to the BBC.

Please send me the Facebook link.

I've complained to the BBC and Woman's Hour. I thought Jenni's article was good but even if I didn't she should be allowed to state her factual view and actual experiences without censure. If her experience is that the trans women she has met do not seem to fully appreciate the burden of sexism that women experience as they grow up then her experience should be respected.