To expect more from the school

[TerrysNo3]

DS1 is in Y3, one of his friends' parents work full time and the eldest DC (age 12) looks after the other 2 after school each day (ages 8 and 10). The 8 and 10 year old usually cycle home together, its about a mile.

On Friday we were leaving school and I saw the 8yo cycling up the path on his own. I asked who he was with and he explained that his 10yo sibling had already gone home as his club had been cancelled. He then said that the school had phoned his DM and she told them he could cycle home alone. I phoned and confirmed this with the school.

I just couldn't let him go on his own so we walked him home. Aside from the fact I can't believe his parents are happy with this arrangement I am really surprised the school agreed it was OK for an 8yo (who was 8 in the last few weeks) cycle home alone.

AIBU to expect the school to not blindly agree with the parents? Shouldn't this be a safeguarding issue?

Please feel free to tell me if I'm way off the mark. Thanks

When I was 8 I was riding a pony around the countryside and going up to ten miles away from my home with nothing but a packed lunch for company.

Each parent to his/her own - YANBU to be worried, because presumably you wouldn't want your children to do the same, but 8 years is quite old enough for some children to be on their own if they are competent and confident.

Conceded Willow which I'm happy to say I misread - but I still think OP is the one who is unintentionally leading the child towards a potentially unsafe situation rather than his own mother or the school.

There's an awful lot of boundaries being crossed here.

The school should no way have discussed it with you at all. "Thank you, we are aware" was perfectly appropriate and all they needed to say.

Making him walk with you was dreadful on all boundaries. Firstly, if my ds was cycling home, I would have an idea of when I expected them. So the ds has to wait around while she checked (how humiliating for him to have another mum basically accuse him of lying) then walk-even a short distance this would take much longer. If that was me I'd be getting very worried at the time-or maybe that was the OP's idea, to try and force her to stop it.

"We're all going for a hot chocolate" either that's really mean to say "we're going for a hot chocolate but not you, but you're going to have to walk with us, then go on-or you're bribing with food, which is concerning.

Here, at junior level the children are released to parents without a formal hand over. Some walk home at that age, some scoot, not many cycle, but you know it's great for them. You see them really raising their standards to be allowed to do that.

He's clearly a mature little lad-otherwise he'd have cycled off and left you. Just because your ds isn't up to that, doesn't mean another child isn't. My three have all matured in different ways at different rates and things that one could do at an age, the others' couldn't necessarily.

Wild
Yes I totally agree (see my previous posts)
She had no right to insist she walked with him.

I will be updating my advice to my kids on the back of this thread. I never even considered someone would do this kind of thing when they had the correct info about the situation.😲

Your intentions were obviously well meaning OP and you can't win in this situation. If you had ignored the 8 year old leaving school unaccompanied and should something have happened to him then you would feel responsible and guilty for not having checked.

I am amazed at all the 8 year olds on MN that wander about alone, it certainly isn't the norm where I live. At our school they normally start walking alone from about age 10. It doesn't help that there is no clear laws on leaving children home alone. I believe that it it centres around not exposing them unnecessary danger, which is open to a interpretation should any of the children have an accident or come to any harm.

But she did check and was told both school and parents were fine with it. Thats as far as she needed to go.

Its not her responsibility to police other peoples kids doing what they have been told to do by their parents.

If the child had been distressed or afraid to go home themselves then fine, tell the school, but the boy did this every day anyway!

Remember just cos something isnt the norm where you live doesnt mean its the same for the whole country!

"Here, at junior level, the children are released to parents without a formal handover"...

Does that mean they open the school doors and let them go?

At my DC's school, the teacher comes out with the class and the children are not dismissed until they have each shaken hands with the teacher and said "good afternoon" and the teacher has made eye contact at the very least with the parent or nominated person collecting. Only some students in Year 6 go home alone.

Alaia In our school P1s (so 4 or 5 yo) have to be handed over to an adult.

From P2 (5or 6 yo) they just open the doors and let them go. Most will be collected by an adult. Some will walk/ride with siblings. Some will walk/ride home alone.

BTW the fact that they walk home alone doesn't mean there is no one at home when they get there.

Shaken hands with the teacher?

Crikey ours are in too big a rush to do that
Teachers come to their respective doors, tinies are watched going to their parents, p 3,4 some parents are there some not, 5,6,7 just come out themselves.

Village school, most kids from p4/5 just run home some parents still come for the chat though, but a few kids tell their parents that they dont want them there its no big deal, (unless they live too far away and get picked up by parents or bus home) its always been that way in the village, even did it myself 100 years ago!

What age are year 6?

Op- it sounds to me like the parents had reluctantly allowed him to go home alone, due to an event beyond their control. I think you did the right thing and if it was my child I would be grateful. You knew the child and it sounds like you were nice with him.
In an area I grew up in, an 8 year old (on a bike) pulled off the pavement into the path of a car and was killed. He just didn't look. The parents have spent years trying to get railings placed along that section of pavement, to make sure no child could do it again. I think they wanted something good to come from his death. The sad thing is he may just not have been careful enough to be out alone. Some would be at 8, but he wasn't. I think you would have been unreasonable if the school said the child in your situation made this journey alone every night, in these circumstances you did what you thought was best and he got home safe. The mum and dad may be grateful to you for caring enough to make sure he got home okay or they may be annoyed you checked. I don't think anyone on here can tell you how the parents feel about it. You'll probably find out next time you see them.
Parents have different expectations and can get upset about anything. I've worked in schools where I have had to tell the parents that they can't come in and unpack their 10 or 11 year olds bag. One mother told the senco I was an evil bitch that was trying to force her son to become independent, by teaching him to pack his school bag himself. I suceeded too, much to her fury.

He's 8, not 5.

Willow - year 6 are 10 turning 11.
In most schools round here they have to shake hands, make eye contact and say "good morning" to the head who will be at the door in the morning. Most are dropped off by car tbh. It's the same to the teacher at the end of the day.
Definitely no little ones skipping home on their own round here

I have family members who do this. They do it to my kids, their friends and to any random child they deem to be neglectfully parented.

Don't underestimate how massively enraging this sort of thing is. It actively undermines the trust the child has in the choices their parents, and in this case, the school have made.

I now put my foot down with the inlaws when my kids are involved, following a period where one of them started to be fearful of walking around our lovely area having been perfectly comfortable, confident etc right up until the inlaws visited, repeatedly told her they wanted to be sure she was safe, and escorted her every step out of doors. She hated it, we hated it, and we had to do a whole load of work to reassure her that she was fine to mooch around our cul de sac and go to the shop.

We have to fight them on it every time because they still can't see that their need to be reassured and not to worry does not trump everyone else's reasoned decisions about their child's safety and well being.

It's unbefuckinglievably embarrassing when they do it to kids they don't even know. And then they expect us to all join in with tutting at the neglectful parents and pat them on the back for keeping the kids safe.

Alaia how many kids in the school?

There's 400 children in my kid's school. Even at 30 seconds a child that would take a looong time.

Alaia5

Here they line up in the morning and say 'Good Morning Mrs/Mr X" whichever teacher/head is at the door talking to them, "Good Morning Everyone" its very sweet

I suspect its a different type of area so I can understand the differences in home times pick ups but around here 10/11yr olds who live in the village would be mortified to have a parent waiting in the playground.

Lochan - the head stands in the door between 8-8.30am. After that you're late. The school is split into 2 buildings (Lower and Upper years) with probably 180 in each building. The head of Lower School will greet the little ones. Sometimes the Deputy Head will be in the door as well.

The school would not allow your child to go home alone before Year 6. Even then, this would have to be agreed with the parents. If there was nobody there to collect the child, the teacher would take them to the school office, call the parents and hold the child there until someone came.

I'm fairly certain the OP is aware she was BU but my main concern would be that she feels that she can encourage a child to ignore their parents' instructions.

If my daughter was in the situation of a random non-relative adult approaching her on her way home (even if she knows them) and encouraging or trying to force her to deviate from the plan already in place (in this case that it's fine to cycle home alone) for any reason then she should ignore them as she must only follow the instructions we've agreed together. If the adult is insistent on her accompanying them then she is allowed to run/cycle away and either come straight home or if she feels unsafe (eg she's still quite a way from home), depending on exactly where she is/has been, she can go to a friend's house or to her grandparents if they are closer and then either call me on her mobile or have them get in contact.

I've even had a situation where my uncle has seen her en-route home as he was taking his kids (the youngest of whom is only a year older than her) to see my grandmother, and stopped to see if she wanted to join them and she refused to go until she had phoned me to check it was okay.

@alaia5 if a parent decided they were allowed to walk home alone then the school would quickly discover they have no right not to allow it.

Happened here when a new HT came in. They can refer to SS if they wish, but ultimately how s child gets home from school is the decision of their parents

I would have been grateful too OP, as it was a one off.

Does that mean they open the school doors and let them go?

They do at our school, from Yr3 (seven year olds). Many of the children walk/cycle home on their own, or with friends. Many are collected by parents. But from Yr5, almost all the children make their own way home.

Just a few quick responses:

We did not try to "entice" him to come for a hot chocolate with us, we said we were walking that way anyway to get one so why didn't we all walk together.

He had told me he'd cycled home on his own once before and this time was only due to a misunderstanding. I hope it didn't come across as me disagreeing with his parents (even though I do).

As for phoning the school, as I said before one of my friends son was found walking home alone along the road a few months ago and he wasn't supposed to be, so I was checking to make sure, not because I didn't trust him. Once I'd done that I was just worried as it was late (not because of the call but because of the clubs confusion he was last out), the roads were very quiet as everyone else had gone home already and he had only done it once before. I err-ed on the side of caution.

And whatever I think about the DPs decisions, this boy was the sweetest and most well behaved child I have ever had for a playdate!

You were nervous about him going home on his own so you walked along with him and looked out for him. I'm glad there are still people like you OP. I'd like to think someone would look out for my child too.

From year 3 it is doors open at the end of the day children out. Most parents wait a distance from the school if they're meeting the children as there isn't much space to wait. I'd estimate less than 10% of the parents are waiting within 5 minutes walk of the school.
Most children live within an hour walk of the school, and I believe they only lose around 5% of the children annually, so 95% of children survive each year which is good statistics. As in the animal world it's survival of the fittest, so we don't worry too much about the 5%. It's why their results are improving year after year. Natural selection.

School called home. Home were happy.

If school had concerns theyd not have allowed it.

You overstepped the mark.