to move my daughter to a local school because she won't get out of bed in the morning?

[papayasareyum]

She's 14.
She loves school and has lots of friends there. We decided to send her to a village school which is 11 miles away. It's a lovely small high school with excellent results and reputation, unlike the large local high school. She has to get a school bus just before 8 in the morning. She just won't get up though without constant nagging, bribing, cajoling, arguing and then screaming. She calls me names and is generally horrible. (Her behaviour lately is shocking: name calling, mean to her sisters and zero respect)
If she misses the bus, there's no other way to get to school. So I end up driving her. It's a 60 minute round trip! I work from home, but have seen a few tempting jobs recently and not bothered applying because I know that the regular occasions I have to drive a stroppy 14 year old to school will piss off any employer as it will make me late for work.
She's in year 9, so I could move her to our local school, which is a 10 minute walk from home. If she refuses to get up, she'll be late. But no need to drive her in. (she's not bothered on the occasions I can't or won't drive her in, attendance doesn't bother her)
Do I move her? Would that be unreasonable? I'm sick of the impact that her screaming and refusing to be up in time has on the rest of us. It's averaging at about 3 times a week. Every week. I'm drained. She doesn't want to move to the new school, but I'm not sure I can cope with another 2.5 years of this before and finishes school and year 9 is the last opportunity to move her before GCSEs.
I've threatened to move her and she just says that she'll refuse to go and we can't make her!

I'm interested to know how she could possibly have argued with you for 8 hours especially if the argument started in the evening as you said.

8 hours? Ridiculous letting that carry on. Send her to her room with no privileges and speak to her the following day. If you don't engage then she has no one to argue with.

Do you have a partner? Do they have anything to say?

Your problem isn't her not getting up - it is her general behaviour.

I would give her warning - three chances and then she's moved. And for those three chances, she needs to pay for her transport herself.

I have an ASD teen, believe me, I know back talk and arguing.

"when we took her iPad away, she argued with us for 8 hours solid"

The way we do this is that we say that a) they have to go away for X time so everyone can calm down. If they don't go then every time they argue and are told to go the ipod goes away for an extra 24 hours (and BTW, it goes to DHs work so said teen can't try and reclaim it. You can add hours instead of 24 if it works better for you). After 1/2 hour/hour/whatever I will be willing to talk so long as everyone stays calm... if not then the conversation is over and every warning after that is an extra 24 hours. If the teen calmly says "can I talk to you about it now?" after leaving and calming down then I say "yes, so long as you stay calm."

Eventually I'm talked out and DT is not so I give a 2 minute warning. After that I acknowledge what I have heard, ask if that is what they were trying to say and listen to their response. If I have got it wrong I try again and again ask if this is what they wanted to express until I have it right and then say "I know you don't agree but I hear what you said, I'm sorry you are having a hard time with this. I'm done talking about this now"

If DT keeps trying to bring it up after that I put my hand up and say "I'm done" "I'm done" "I'm done" "I'm done" etc and nothing else until they stomp off and slam a door. Be Mrs Repeat so they get no emotion or response other than "I'm done".

If teen flatly refuses to hand over requested item we have a flat week long removal once it is handed over and phone and wifi is off until that time. The conversation goes along these lines "you can refuse, that is your perogative, but this is what happens until you do."

DH says that we shouldn't apply consequences for bad behaviour because of gawdawful behaviour but I say that that is when you should put your foot down, you shouldn't get away with piss poor behaviour because someone is scared of your reaction, that is a terrible lesson for a young person to learn.

so the eight hours would have been a very frustrating experience for her because it would have been "I'm done" "I'm done" repeatedly until she gave up. I am more stubborn than my teen because it is in their best interest that they don't learn that bad behaviour is rewarded.

"they all care if they have technology/money taken from them for poor behaviour."

...or TV, new clothes, makeup or chatting with friends or junk food or whatever. My friend told me "find your child's currency".

poor you, OP.

I have a slightly similar situation, Y9, teenage boy sometimes late for school.

I think the problem is that even if you moved her to a school closer, you might have the same problem! If teenagers cannot deal with "time" it doesn't matter whether its 8 a.m. or 9 a.m!

Why can't she deal with time? Either she's a rebellious teenager? or she's slightly ADHD perhaps? They have no concept of time. The argumentativeness and intransigence also sounds a bit ADHD.

I honestly have no advice, because there's no easy answer. ADHD symptoms might explain things, you may need to look into it. Either way, its not gonna be an easy next 2 1/2 years unless you get to grapple with things.

Schools IME don't tend to understand this issue! The teenager is late for school. the parent does their best. The school punishes the student. Its not ideal, but what else solution is there????

Shes not doing it on purpose. Teens have different body , so many wont be able to get to sleep until the small hours. This is often made worse by phones and ipads. And they need more sleep because they are developing so much.

Id really recommend talking to her about how long it takes her to fall asleep. Is she anxious about something? Is that keeping her awake? If shes struggling to get enough sleep then maybe a hyponsis app could , or mindfulness. There are also apps that block the blue light from electronic devices.

The wake up light is a really good idea.

*a different body clock

She is doing it on purpose. If teens in general couldn't help but act like this, they'd all be at it. But they aren't, this is not normal behaviour. It's not about how much sleep she needs, she is screaming and shouting and swearing and purposefully missing school.
Forget buying her fancy lights and punish her severely instead!

I agree CountClueless, 100%.

Unless there are other issues!
Its not normal to be screaming and shouting and swearing for sure.
So its either permissive and indulgent parenting with no boundaries and guidance.
Or very difficult teen perhaps with genuine issues.
Unfortunately on threads like this - and MN is littered with them from babyhood to teens - we cannot really know as posters because we really don't know the indivduals or what the problem really is, only the results in terms of poor behaviour. Especially with issues like autism, ADHD for example (some of which is hidden as low on the spectrum). Alot of the advice are stabs in the dark, and without knowing the whole truth, can cause more harm than good.

I'd be making her get a taxi and pay for it herself. When she runs out of pocket money/savings I would start selling her things to pay her taxi's. Wifi goes off for 24 hours every time she is rude to you. Just change the password if you need to use it without her using it. You could also change her phone to PAYG and make her earn her credit for getting up on time. I'd give it a fortnight at most before she learns to speak to you with respect.

At her age, my school started at 7:00. And almost everyone got to school on time because the consequences were over the top of we didn't.

I think you have to let her face the consequences, like others have said, and make moving schools the last one not the first. She'll start getting up on time.

She's going to try to get you to take her because it is nicer and later than the bus. Under those circumstances I would probably be the same (well other than the fact that I am not a teenager).

Many of the suggestions about getting her up earlier are great. A few extra ideas - firstly explore whether there is anything happening on the bus, bullying etc. Presumably she is happy to come home on the bus though. You could also try GP if you think there could be something wrong. Could she get herself up and ready for 8 on the weekend/ holiday if there was something fun to go to?

Secondly I would make you driving her be less attractive. I am guessing that at the moment if you drive then she isn't late. She needs to be late. I understand that there is no other way for her to get there but you need to talk to school, make it clear that she does have the ability to be on time but is choosing not to catch the bus so if she is late (unless on the bus and whole bus is late) then you want the book thrown at her. Next time she is too late for the bus and she asks for a lift then 'oh dear, I just need to have a shower, dry my hair and I need some fuel in the way so you will be 15 mins late.' Rinse and repeat as necessary. Make her getting to school on time less of a priority for you. You could also charge her for the fuel and if she is persistently late and you are fined then a proportion of that fine comes from her money. At first I would just be late enough for her to miss registration, assembly etc. If it escalates then my dd's teachers would not be impressed at her trying to come in during first period.

My dd's school would definitely be interested in this as they take a fairly rounded view and recognise that there is no point in getting a clutch of qualifications if you can't get out of bed and to your job on time.

At 14 I'd make it her responsibility to get up and get to school. Miss the bus, ring and tell them you won't be in.

Anaemia, vitamin D deficiency, Vitamin B deficiency and thyroid issues all cause sleep and waking problems. ADD and ADHD also cause behaviour problems (and are not incompatible with good behaviour and performance at school or work). Get her seen by the GP first. The bad behaviour may be caused by the exhaustion. She may be concentrating her energy and patience into school which means she's all out by the time she's home.

Once that has been ruled out, it's time to implement the tougher scenarios others have mentioned, but run the new regime in parallel with rewards. Counter-intuitive but it's how adults are incentivised in work and she's at the age she'd have been working fifty years ago.

Have you tried figuring out the cause for her school refusal? Anxiety etc. My 7 year old is a school refuser. Ive tried everything in the book and i can just imagine my life being like that when hes older. Good luck.

My 7 year old is a school refuser

I would talk to the school and his teacher in your case. He might be having problems with his classmates? Or I would move him.

If she argued for 8 hours over the I pad that suggests to me that she normally has it with her all the time.
If that's true then your answer lies right there op.
Some kids just have no self control with devices and your dd is probably on it half the night.
My dd is 15 and we use an app to block her phone on school nights.
She resisted at first but could soon see joe much better she felt for it.
I'm a pretty laid back parent but I'm rigid about this.

Dd can be bad about getting up. She missed the bus once, I refused to drive her. So she missed a day at school and got into trouble. She hasn't missed the bus since.

Try treating her as a grown up. So this weekend - not when she's tired or in trouble etc -sit her down and say you are thinking of applying for a new job, it'll be great for you and the family money-wise, but the biggest issue putting you off is that if you get the job you'll no longer be available to take her to school if she misses the bus.

Ask her if she would prefer to be moved to the closer school so it's easier for her to get herself to school. If she says no, then ask if she thinks she can cope with no "mum lift" back up. Suggest you have a "trial run" next week- you won't drive her in so she's got to be at the bus stop on time or you'll leave a taxi number next to the phone, there'll be an envelop with enough money in it for 1 taxi journey, but that will be deducted from her pocket money.

If this can't work then she'll have to move to the nearer school.

Right now she has 2 options to get to school, one is nicer than the other, he lift with you. It is hardly surprising when she has an option she picks the nicest option, doesn't mean she wouldn't manage the other option when it's the only one available.

Believe it or not - he has pathological demand avoidance once hes there he is fine. He generally hates leaving anywhere and its down to anxiety apparently. Its so tough lol.

She's quite a big girl to be letting you deal with the fallout from her inability to get up. I think you need to have a firm word with her that if she misses the bus again you won't be driving her to school.
And don't.
Although I'm sure you'd rather you didn't reward her. I also like the idea about making up time with chores etc
Don't move her to a different school that is teaching her nothing about responsibility.

My two have to leave the house at 7.30 for a bus and it's a similar scenario as there isn't another direct bus - they'd have to get a two buses and then walk ten mins. We do take to bus stop on way to work though. Obviously no-one likes getting up at 6.30 esp a teen, but if she is happy at school with friends I would just have to suck up the grim mornings.

eldest dd refused to get up one week - i threw water over her, she got up. I know i'm evil, she lived though and got up