AIBU to think women should take responsibility for their own happiness and leave an unhappy marraige?

[PhilCoulsonsLeftHand17]

Name changed as it could be outing if anyone finds the original post this is from.

Read a thread somewhere else 'Ode to Self Sacrifice' from a woman who no longer loves her husband, doesnt find him attractive now but "rolls over" and lets him have sex with her while wishing she was elsewhere or with someone else, fantasises daily with thoughts of leaving with the kids, thinks of how her life could be better without him and telling herself that after the kids are older she can have the life she wants. She claims its just a mothers love and as a 'mother' she has to sacrifice her happiness and stay.

Personally (apart from the women who have been beaten down by years of abuse and have no support to leave which is not the case here) I think she should take some responsibility for herself and her own happiness. She is living a lie and it would be better for everyone if she split. I am sure her kids have picked up on her unhappiness and her husband deserves to find someone who actually loves him back surely?

What happens in 10 years when the kids find out she only stayed 'for them'? How are they going to feel knowing she was unhappy all that time?
What if something happens and she cant leave in 10 years time? Does she continue to live a lie?
What does she tell her husband? "I have not loved you for 10 years, I have bewen lying to you all this time and I am leaving you now"

Surely in 2017 she can take responsibility for her own happiness? Not saying it is easy but its doable if she wants to. Why should her happiness come last in a family? Surely parents who are happy apart is better than unhappy together?

We all sacrifice things for our kids so they get the best we can give them in all aspects of their lives but should we sacrifice our own happiness for 15/20 years?

Disclaimer: its up to each individual how they live their life of course but the post was written in a kind of "when you are a mother this is what you have to do" martyrdom type of way and they believe that most women relate to this which I dont agree with at all.

Takes a deep breath...

beauelliotbeautiful what a brave and honest post. wishing you strength, as I think you're doing the best you can for your children.

Ok, second one was good too

You aimed the naïve comment at me. You know you did. You addressed me directly quoting me and used the word naïve in response to it.

The person who was using the other (whore) word, didn't address me directly, as you did - and I don't look for arguments, I just wanted to chat .

Anyway, have a lovely evening , I don't wish to argue with you

Sorry my above post was for CountClueless

Thanks Phil. That's very sweet of you. I feel entirely the opposite of brave and honest as this is nothing I say to anyone out loud. Just to myself.

And back to the very original post, I think if I do make the decision to stay then I might well dress it up with how I'm doing it for my children and I am fabulous and self sacrificing and all that. Because it's a much better story to tell myself than it's because I'm too scared of hurting everyone else and haven't got the energy and am resigned to it. So I suspect even the original blog writer is only showing you the curated public facing view of what is actually happening in her head.

If money were no object she would flee like a bat outta hell.
However, in great property, kids in private schools of her choice, great holidays, don't want to/have to work, good disposable income. Generally a really nice lifestyle - only fly in the ointment is him. But if he goes, the lifestyle goes - he provides the money, she provides the family life.
it's a trade off, a deal. It's a hell of a lot easier to leave if you're already broke.

because I'm too scared of hurting everyone else and haven't got the energy and am resigned to it.

and this is also key

Ideally I'd like mine to go off with someone else which would stop him being spiteful and refusing school fees etc. Perhaps I could arrange it, hmmmm...

Beau
I know the feeling of hiding the truth from the world sometimes only too well.

I like your theory too it adds a different dimention to the problem.

Ultimately - its not staying for the children, its staying for the lifestyle and every case is different. Nobody can make that decision for you but it takes a lot of courage and energy and sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it to leave a nice lifestyle to step into the unknown. I daydream about it all the time though.

Ultimately - its not staying for the children, its staying for the lifestyle
I do think that is the bottom line for many women, however they choose to lie
to themselves/the world. Personally I think it does the children an enormous disservice.

The lifestyle to infers house, holidays and nice clothes. For me staying is because I think it's better for my kids. Dh isn't abusive just thoughtless and selfish. Is it worth upending the lives of two dc who have special needs? I'm not sure. I feel I'm living with an annoying flat mate but I know if I left I'd be completely alone in the week as he couldn't have them because of work and he'd become a very nasty bastard. You're fine if you're on his good side. I half hope he'll end it or have an affair. But for now for me it's not even about the house, we can't afford holidays either it's about the kids having stability.

I don't understand why everyone is characterizing the dilemma as "money vs happiness," or "the kids' happiness vs your happiness." Who are you to say that a woman you've never met would be happier if she left her husband? I know all the cliches about how money isn't everything, but having done it both ways I can tell you that financial security and material comforts actually do bring a great deal of happiness in many situations. We're comfortable now but not nearly enough to maintain two separate households at this level. I'm lucky to be very happily married but if I simply got bored of my DH or stopped loving him which is kind of bullshit anyway, as a PP said we all have to work at it but anyway I would probably stay if the alternative was that neither of us would see the kids every day and we would have to drastically change our lifestyle. It's not so much about having a nice home or going on holidays, although I would very sorely miss those things, but don't underestimate how comforting it is to know that there is money in the bank if something bad happens -- car breaks down unexpectedly, house needs a new roof, or if one of us needed to go abroad for experimental medical treatment. I loved for a long time without knowing if we could stretch my paycheck to the next payday, and let me tell you I'm a lot happier this way. My DH is a lovely man and even if I stopped fancying him I'm sure I could happily coexist with him and we could both enjoy the children and the life we've built together. I doubt I would go out and meet someone else anyway, certainly that wouldn't be my priority. On balance I know I would be a lot less happy living above the chippy and scraping the pennies together. So for me, and I think a lot of women, it's not so black and white. I wouldn't be "choosing money over happiness," I would be choosing a life of balanced happiness and regret, which frankly describes every adult I know, over a life of poverty and loneliness. Easy choice as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's a fascinating and very important thread and it's good people of all viewpoints are posting on it.

My parents stayed married for 50 years until death unhappily. It was not better for us. However my mother in her 60s when my father did offer to buy her a separate house just would not agree to that -too stuck in how things were, the sniping at each other had in a sense become their way of being and they had other interests, hobbies and work to distract them from the awful relationship.

I got out after a very long time from my unhappy marriage but it was very difficult. May be people on much lower incomes, benefits don't have quite the same issues - for me I lost my life savings, just about everything but I kept the house with a new massive mortgage so things were just about sustained (I worked full time). I did sit there weighing it all up - both the emotional side, damage to chidlren side from the unhappy marriage and the financial side and the help from their father side. I would not have divorced whilst children were under 4 as I needed both he and I to help with the children.

It comes to a point which in a story by Fleming he called the "Quantum of Solace" when what you take out of the marriage is so low, the benefits, the solace so few, that on balance you get out. That point whan the amount of solace you derive from the marriage gets to zero or below is different for everyone. All kinds of factors are in play. no one had ever divorced on either side of our family for example. Even at school my sons then were the only children with divorced parents in the whole year group (amazing as I know that sounds!).

I never regret it but nor do I regret waiting until the point when I chose to divorce. It was the right point for me.

I don't know why people are saying finances don't matter. Nothing decides how a child does in life as it's financial situation. 7% at private schools get at least 50% of the best jobs, children from single parent families on benefits living in rough areas do very badly in life. I can quite understand a man or woman staying with a better off partner (and yes plenty of the higher earners these days are like me - female) for that financial benefit to the children as much as to them. Many many couples cannot afford to pay two sets of rent or buy two homes for children post divorce, they are hardly managing as things stand with living together and pooling income.

You aimed the naïve comment at me. You know you did. You addressed me directly quoting me and used the word naïve in response to it

Your post showed naivety. Own it.

Pat, how would you then feel if your DH decided that that sort of life wasn't enough for him and had an affair? Would you still stay with him rather than losing your lifestyle? Materialistic people might stay for the money, but the other partner might decide that this isn't enough and might decide to turn elsewhere. I couldn't blame them, who wants to be used for money??

BeauElliot so much of your post resonates with me.

'Staying for the lifestyle' implies money but it can be much more than that - i.e. giving your kids a secure and stable home life. Not suggesting that can't be done with one parent but it's often better with two.

It's true that if you're obviously unhappy then maybe you're not setting a good example to your kids, especially daughters, but if there's no abuse or real unhappiness then maybe you're just illustrating that much of the time life is about compromise and that blissful happiness every day is an unrealistic expectation.

HARSH - "Pat, how would you then feel if your DH decided that that sort of life wasn't enough for him and had an affair? Would you still stay with him rather than

Well that would be an element that gets added to the equation - every individual has to do the maths themselves and every case will have different factors on their balance scales but money, security, trauma and perceived happiness of children (this last factor could go on either side of the scale) are common themes to be weighed.

OP

"we can all disagree and still be civil"

Saying 'get a grip' and 'ffs' in your very first post to littlefrogs is not a civil and adult way to talk to someone who disagreed with you. You inflamed things by using those terms.

I agree in principle that women should maintain their own independent earning potential.
However I think women that get pregnant then breathe a sigh of relief that now they can give up all icky responsibility are few.

There are all sorts of factors that come into play, maternity leave treatment is a huge one.

I never planned to give up work but after going on maternity I was totally screwed by my progressive and inclusive workplace.

Yes I challenged them legally and was successful, however I was still without a job.

From this point it is only too obvious that the woman will stay at home while the baby is young as she has already been kicked out of the workforce. I know many of these circumstances.

I think any viewpoint that excuses women entirely from responsibility over their life and happiness is as flawed as the viewpoint that blames them entirely.

Life, especially with kids and marriages, can be hugely complicated.

It is normal to be fed up with a partner at times. One doesn't just leave!
My friend did this because she wanted flowers and romance. Of course that didn't work out and now she is stuck and realises her mistake - her ex is great, just not exciting enough for her.
What I didn't understand is that she is neither exciting nor rich either so why try and find someone who is? It doesn't work like that.
I blame Hollywood.

I'm happily married and love DH very much, but if I didn't and things were "ok", I can easily see I'd stay.

My relationship with DH is only a part of my total lifestyle, he's out at work 11 hours a day and asleep for a lot of his time at home, so the percentage of my life spent in his company isn't that great, and this house is big enough that if I didn't want to spend time with him once the dcs are in bed, I could sit in another room.

I also have a pre-schooler so my potential lifestyle as a single parent would be very different than if all my dcs were at school - waiting until all dcs are at a stage when they don't need v expensive childcare if things are "dull but ok" is sensible.

Also from among my friends who aren't happily married now, it was clear to outsiders they didn't have a perfect relationship before dcs - but generally the woman were late20s/early 30s and wanted dcs, didn't want to have to start again dating to find a better man, so went into this with the expectation that the relationship wasn't going to be a source of joy, they wanted the dcs. Not all admitted that at the time though.

Really interesting discussion.

I thought I'd share my story.

I was in a stable but troubled marriage for 20 years. My ex was a complex angst -ridden type who just didn't grow up. What had started out as a charming intensity and passion, eventually felt like monstrous self absorption and entitlement.

Anyway, we jogged on for twenty years - children, house, holidays etc. We are both well qualified, both worked full-time (I was a SAHM until youngest was 4) but he earned considerably more than me because I am a teacher. Teaching worked for us as a family because he could be home by 5:30 in term time and I was home all holidays. We both wanted our children to be able to spend time at home, as we had growing up.

He was unhappy and I tried hard to please. The balance of our relationship became extremely skewed and over the last seven years became very dysfunctional. The kids saw none of this. We put on a fabulous show.

Anyway, 2 years ago he comes home from a business trip and announces he's leaving. Turns out he's in love and he is taking responsibility for his own happiness. I was devastated and had not seen it coming.

Children are 16, 13 and 10. They are devastated. We immediately embark on some crazy circus of eow and alternate nights in the week. I think we're all in a state of shock. I am bereft. He wants 50-50 and is all ready to start being happy.

Fast forward 2 years. Two of the kids won't speak to him (we've been to court, he's accused me of all sorts). The third sees him eow and one weeknight. Although he loves his dad, he hates the upheaval of this arrangement and it's affecting his GCSE grades as he never does homework at dad's.

The kids are not happier, I assume my ex is devastated. Ironically, despite the endless court battles and current financial instability, I'm probably the only family member who is marginally happier. He was hard work.

Families are complex little micro-organisms. I would have stayed. It's better for me that it's broken down. I'm not sure that it's better for anyone else. I hope it's made my children stronger and more pragmatic about relationships but God, it's been hard to see them suffer as they have.

Lots of things work to grind down our happiness, the unrelenting tedium and knowledge that nobody is coming home to help you as a single parent is one. Another is living in poverty, unable to get out because of the cost of childcare. Yet another is living in an unsatisfing relationship, where there is no active unhappiness, just a slowly bubbling resentment.

I don't think it's for us to judge anyone for choosing the way in which they are ground down. Also, pointing to a woman and saying it serves her right, she should never have given up work to raise her children is in extremely poor taste.

We all play the best hand we can with the cards dealt to us. I think it's unrealistic to say that the deck isn't stacked against women in particular and judging them for making the best of it is unhelpful.

I was one of those women who, to a certain degree, "sacrificed" my own happiness for the family unit. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I was happy enough.

The financial burden on the children as a consequence of the split is considerable. They will leave university with more debt, they may not have a bedroom to come home to once they finish their degrees. Money might not be everything but it helps....