Disabled should work for less than minimum wage

[ElvishArchdruid]

Watching BBC24 and astounded at a woman who has come on to endorse that disabled folk should be paid less than normal (whatever that is) folk.

It's done her daughter the world of good and she thinks it fair as her daughter works at a slower pace with Downs Syndrome. I feel like they're casting a rather big net for a single group that may work slower. But the insinuation that I should be paid less than minimum wage is pretty outrageous. I'm sure there's lots like me who are mentally very capable, but have a body that doesn't co-operate.

A charity has endorsed this position too.

It has left me fuming, the woman by appearances can take the hit of her daughter getting paid less than minimum wage, let alone a living wage, subsidising her daughter possibly.

There is anger whilst I type this, but I can't see myself ever accepting such a suggestion.

"I have a good and active social life and interests so employment doesn't offer me anything I don't already have in my life, and I hate the idea that I must be trapped if I'm claiming benefits."

grainy, I think you're about to be struck dead by a lightning bolt from Frank Field and David Freud, for admitting to having a fulfilling life which doesn't involve paid work.

In a supermarket, filling shelves, generally women are slower than men at doing so. Does that means that women should be paid less for the job?

2rebecca - I think parents actual experiences and opinions of their actual children have more substance that that of your hypothetical "mentally retarded" child. It's clear you arent that aware of the issues as you've referred to a learning difficulty when you actually mean a learning disability.

well i have an adult child that is classed as having LD'S
no way on earth would we ever allow them to be working for less than the nmw.
they are a person with worth, not a made up person.
"if I had"
well I have....and they should never be a sub class....

It's clear you arent that aware of the issues as you've referred to a learning difficulty when you actually mean a learning disability.

Well at least you have correct the error.

patronising's always the best way to educate and inform.

well as long as you pat the people with LDS on the head and give them a fiver......its all good

imagine a thread on mn
immigrants/women/jews/muslins (add your own)
should work for less than the minimum wage
how many people would post ....yes they should.?
yet put in "disabled*
and we get people proudly saying.........yes because.
just because your aunties dog is happy to be paid peanuts does not make it right..just because your (never existed) child with LD'S was happy does not make it right.
just because you got cheap service at a cafe does not make it right, PEOPLE WITH LDS ARE PEOPLE AND THEY DESERVE THE NMW

If you cant be bothered to find this sort of stuff out and your'e an expert on everything i assume?

grainy

I'm delighted that you have a good and active social life and are able to manage that. Why can you not manage to work?

I would rather be doing my craft hobbies or catching up with friends.

Wouldn't we all...

If I am going to be expected to go out and work and sacrifice my time and effort for an employer

It's called a 'job'.

I would expect to be paid the same rate as anyone else. Anything else would be exploitation.

And that's exactly what should happen. If you can work to the same standard in a role then you should be paid the same. If you're underperforming to such an extent that the company cannot afford to pay you NMW and be financially viable then the situation is different and that's what's being discussed here.

no way on earth would we ever allow them to be working for less than the nmw. they are a person with worth

You're confusing worth as a person with worth as an employee. I clearly have no idea as to the severity of your childs LDs, but he isn't necessarily of equal value to a company. Not all people are and that's why we're all paid differently.

imagine a thread on mn, immigrants/women/jews/muslims (add your own) should work for less than the minimum wage

Because those characteristics don't make them unemployable or financially unviable for a money-making enterprise.

But SansComic (appropriate user name btw as you really arent funny) pre the 1975 Sex Discrimination Act it was being argued that women wernt productive either especially after marriage and children. In fact there are still some employers who claim this today and it is rightfully met with outrage.
What changed this was women and some men campaigning for change.

Where is the outrage when its suggested for disabled people.
If ppl had just accepted the status quo re. sex discrimination (which some on here seem happy to do when it involves disabled people) nothing would have changed.

Cosy - it wasn't supposed to be patronising at all, rather I was highlighting that it is a genuine concern/issue in the learning disability community that there is the devaluing of genuine learning disabilities by referring to them as learning difficulties.

But SansComic (appropriate user name btw as you really arent funny)

I wasn't trying to be. It's a serious topic. Grow up.

Women can be equally as productive as men. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but not necessarily less because of their sex.

The same is true of people with disabilities, mental or physical. Reasonable adaptations can usually be made more easily for physical disabilities which is why this thread has shifted towards discussing those with LD, SEN or other mental disabilities.

These (in some cases) cannot be 'worked around' or have adaptions made for them to be viable employees at the NMW. Some people say that because those people have value as a human, it is demeaning to pay them less. Others say that this is nothing to do with their worth as a person but their worth as an employee and that they are worth less than NMW. Some of these people would actually have a direct cost to the company.

Some posters are arguing against the proposal because it could be abused. It's true, any system is open to abuse. I can think of ways where this could be legislated against or procedures put in place such as government 'certification' where someone can be paid less. These people are unlikely to be living by themselves and responsible for their own bills and therefore the argument that their outgoings are the same as any other is a fallacy.

This doesn't seem to me to be discrimination as it's putting a value on a persons output in a job and saying that whilst their value is less than NMW, it has value and there should be a way to employ them which works for the company and employee.

Someone i was at school with does live on her own and have learning difficulties.

I dread to think of the mess shes going to get into with tax credits if this actually goes ahead.

You can perform all the mental gymnastics you like but there are many people with SEN who do live alone. And have to pay the same bills as everyone else.

And telling ppl to grow up because they dont find this kind of discrimination funny says more about you than it does about me.

And telling ppl to grow up because they dont find this kind of discrimination funny says more about you than it does about me.

What?

I said it was a serious subject and I wasn't attempting to be humorous. I suggest you take a deep breath and read my post a little more carefully. Maybe out loud and run your finger under the words whilst you do so.

Does you "friend" have a job? If so, she is not included in this proposal. Does she want a job but is unable to get one because of her problems? If yes, this could be great for her. If not, it makes no difference.

Talking about specifics like difficulties with tax credits when we're discussing a mother's (of a girl with LDs) proposal in a newspaper seems to have missed the point by a good margin.

She means she won't earn enough to live on so would need tax credits and would find it hard to manage them as she is alone.

Bit rich to accuse someone to be missing point and then..miss the point.

DixieNormas

They already do when deciding which benefits people are eligible for.

Doctors hand out medical certificates.

People are assessed by relevant bodies for many reasons.

Why the sarcasm?

Absolutely.

Good grief

It nicely illustrates the concerns people have about this scheme creating some kind of official underclass though