Disabled should work for less than minimum wage

[ElvishArchdruid]

Watching BBC24 and astounded at a woman who has come on to endorse that disabled folk should be paid less than normal (whatever that is) folk.

It's done her daughter the world of good and she thinks it fair as her daughter works at a slower pace with Downs Syndrome. I feel like they're casting a rather big net for a single group that may work slower. But the insinuation that I should be paid less than minimum wage is pretty outrageous. I'm sure there's lots like me who are mentally very capable, but have a body that doesn't co-operate.

A charity has endorsed this position too.

It has left me fuming, the woman by appearances can take the hit of her daughter getting paid less than minimum wage, let alone a living wage, subsidising her daughter possibly.

There is anger whilst I type this, but I can't see myself ever accepting such a suggestion.

r0tring Do you have an ASC?

Yes, a lot of people jumping on somebody not taking 'any' job. It doesn't work like that. I too am educated to degree level etc. However, there are some jobs I simply could not do, the noise of collecting trolleys, the dealing with members of the public, the being in a carpark when 90% of the time I can't cross a road properly, all would have a serious effect on my mental health. You cannot judge people by the same measure you use for yourself. We're not holding out for dream jobs, just jobs we're capable of doing in an environment that is safe for us, and therein lies the difference.

I'm not convinced of the ASD employment stats; before anyone jumps on me I'm an adult with ASD myself however I was diagnosed as an adult, and have had no interaction or involvement with support groups, charities etc and as such am almost certainly missing from any surveys, as would others like me be. My colleagues don't know I'm autistic (although my boss does), and I would eat my hat collection if there are not several others who have autism/aspergers in my office. My previous workplaces have all been the same - but I work in an area of FS which is quite attractive to those with HFA. I would expect most of those individuals are not included in the stats either.

I'm not debating that many people with AS do struggle with employment, but I think there's a danger of the stats becoming a self fulfilling prophecy

Do,you honestly think that if someone is being paid, they will still get to keep their benefits?
I cant imagine our generous goverment doing that.
They will use this as excuse to take more money.
No one should have to work for less than the nmw.
Using oh but its fun for them , is very condescending. People with lds should have the same employment rights as other people.
Once you start this for one group it will be a slippery slope.
Who next?

They will use this as excuse to take more money.

But no group in society should be able to keep benefits if they are earning the NMW.

Even if the cost of their disability is more than they can possibly earn on minimum wage? (Precisely what DLA/PIP is for and not treated as income because of this)

But PIP isn't means tested.

Zacky said 'Do,you honestly think that if someone is being paid, they will still get to keep their benefits?....They will use this as excuse to take more money.'

Many say rascisms got worse in recent years....erm no, DISABILITY HATE CRIME and discrimination against disabled is worse than ever IMO.

Disabled may not bei n workhouses or Bedlam hospital any more, but the discrimination never ends.

maybe that's what the government wants...back to the Georgian/Victorian attitudes of disabled. FFS.

and guess what? police NEVER take it seriously. as for employers, and those on this thread who are displaying discriminatory remarks (a few on here), it beggars belief.

and BTW, carers who have had to give up their lives and carreers to look after disabled loved ones get just over £1.00 an hour. (carers allowance).

that's also discriminating.

minimum wage goes up yet carers and disabled allowance doesn't, they just take it away bit by bit.

But PIP isn't means tested.
but if you live in a residential setting you don't get DLA(care) so i assume PIP will be the same.
all you have is the 24.50 from your ESA to buy everything(a lot of care homes charge for transport, or you have to have your own vehicle so thats the getting around bit used up)
yes your care needs are met, but thats it.

The full website for the charity - and its aim to open cafes etc all along the south coast with the specific aim of giving opportunities to those who are finding themselves unemployable because of a disability, doesn't seem such a bad one.

Back in the 1960s black men were allowed to be bus conductors but not drivers. Women were not allowed to be drivers either.

Instead of 'finding themselves unemployable' they campaigned for change, they didn't settle for 50% wages.

If someone can work in a 'community cafe' then

a) they can work in a non community cafe and
b) if they are paid 50% wages how is that fair to the other cafes who pay full wages?

But no group in society should be able to keep benefits if they are earning the NMW.

Even if that money is because it is more expensive to live with a disability?

and those on this thread who are displaying discriminatory remarks (a few on here), Where? I may have missed them, what page?

Seriously, that is a weighty accusation on an already heated thread...

Torn on this one. My SIL has Downs Syndrome and works at a not for profit gardening/nursery place doing admin. She used to get a fiver a day, then they couldn't afford it. It was some kind of token arrangement. That was stopped a few years ago, now she has to pay for the minibus that picks her up and takes her home to work. It has been renamed as volunteering. It sticks in my craw that she has to pay for transport to work for free two days a week but there are no alternatives left. She's done numerous college courses, the big employers don't want people like her, or they have limited spaces. It's either work for free or sit at home. And some of her colleagues are doing heavy lifting jobs at the nursery and not getting a bean.

Stats. I am pleased you have managed to overcome your Autism and enjoy a career ! I have a friend who is Autistic who is a 'Multi Milloinaire'. The truth is like him you have been lucky to find a niche where you can 'excel' and your disability has not hinded you in that.

BTW my Autistic Millionaire Friend would be the worst 'Trolley Fetcher' in the world , for many of the reasons explained. However, in is own field he is brilliant world class . A field he was just lucky to find himself in.

Most likely without his 'lucky' break he would be with me on ESA !

Between me and DH our £62.10 carers allowance actually works out at 49p an hour during term time and 37p an hour in the holidays.

Muchas why are you torn? That illustrates the OP's point perfectly

you have been lucky....A field he was just lucky to find himself in...

Ooh! That is really not good! Talk about denying a person credit for hard work! That really does belittle anyone, let alone someone with autism!

LouKout Do you genuinely believe it is discrimination not to employ people to do jobs they are not capable of?

But no group in society should be able to keep benefits if they are earning the NMW.

The NMW not being enough to live on, you will find that most people earning it are also in receipt of benefits of some kind (tax credits, housing benefit, council tax support, etc).

i also find it worrying when people who are high functioning in the workplace despite disablities "other" those with LDs saying "but I can do the job just as well".

Why do you mean by "other" those with LD? Although, I think all people (regardless of disability) should be paid more than the minimum wage that doesn't mean that all people with disabilities are the same and should receive the same rate of pay as if we are one homogenous group.

Roomster no not that.

I meant when people object because they can "do the job" but dont seem to object to low functioning prople receiving less than NMW. I am not accusing you of this.

60sname i think its discrimination to pay less than minimum wage to people.

Am shocked you are so surprised by my stance.

Noone with a disability should be treated like an underclass.

Not even those with low IQs and processing issues.

Thanks OurBlanche, glad it's not just me who was irritated by that.

I haven't been lucky to find myself in the field I'm in; I've worked hard to be in it, it didn't fall in to my lap. I've made job changes and moves to find a role which fits my needs better (my current role is in a very "techy" kind of workplace, not all that chatty, not surrounded by folk yelling in to the phone all day, and so on. This role suits me, but if I hadn't gone in to this field I can think of many others which also would likely to have been compatible. I would also be a useless trolley collector

But there are a lot of "niches" where people with ASD tend to excel, and my point was that I suspect a lot of the people in those "niches" get missed when they're evaluating the stats. They'll be a mix of people who are diagnosed as having ASD but aren't accessing any support services, and those who aren't even diagnosed (because they got put in the boxes labelled "weird" or "geek" or "antisocial" or whatever when they were younger rather than being recognised as having ASD).

dont seem to object to low functioning prople receiving less than NMW. I am not accusing you of this. If I am one of them then you have misunderstood, I haven't been clear enough.

I think that there is some merit in there being any work opportunities for people with SEN/LDs. Because all too often they have few, if any, opportunities to do anything 'normal' like earning a living.

I think that by offering supported places, many more people who would otherwise become isolated, institutionalised, etc can get experience in all sorts of work placements.

I think that many would be employers simply cannot afford to offer such placements.

I think that, like apprenticeships, voluntary work, etc, it is counterproductive to refuse to 'allow' employers to pay less, with or without government top ups is to prolong the 'othering' of people with SEN/LDs.

I think the assumption that all such employers are Victorian Workhouse Overseers who will take full advantage is ridiculous.

And I think that it doesn't matter how much more I type, how much more I try to explain, there will always be 2 ways of seeing this. In other words we will never agree.

The difference is I don't think you are a horrible person for not agreeing with me!