Disabled should work for less than minimum wage

[ElvishArchdruid]

Watching BBC24 and astounded at a woman who has come on to endorse that disabled folk should be paid less than normal (whatever that is) folk.

It's done her daughter the world of good and she thinks it fair as her daughter works at a slower pace with Downs Syndrome. I feel like they're casting a rather big net for a single group that may work slower. But the insinuation that I should be paid less than minimum wage is pretty outrageous. I'm sure there's lots like me who are mentally very capable, but have a body that doesn't co-operate.

A charity has endorsed this position too.

It has left me fuming, the woman by appearances can take the hit of her daughter getting paid less than minimum wage, let alone a living wage, subsidising her daughter possibly.

There is anger whilst I type this, but I can't see myself ever accepting such a suggestion.

bill-paying disabled people

Sorry I probably should have put the second 'work' in quote marks as my point is indeed that you can't expect a business to pay a wage to someone incapable of competing in the labour market. But some posters seem to be insisting that everyone is able to hold down a job.

I think that attitude does no favours either to

-People who can compete in the labour market with reasonable adjustments
-People who can't but enjoy the stimulation of 'working' and find it beneficial
-Small businesses

'Bill-paying disabled person'?? Some DO but can only ever do so from benefits! My sister lives in a world where food/ clothes/ gas aren't free but she can't get employment as a semi-independent adult with a council flat and some care support....

I don't know what you mean 60s
My post was in response to the all the comments about people with disabilities not being paid the going rate because employees have to pay for their support workers.
If the support workers took the reduced rate the disabled people could be paid properly.

As so many people think its absolutely fine to underpay employees and expect them to work in a sector not of their choosing I can't see why there would be objections to my idea.

If the support workers took the reduced rate the disabled people could be paid properly.

Why don't you try it and let us know how you get on?

"Many people in supported employment are in receipt of benefits which brings their income up to much higher than the minimum wage. Some are in sheltered housing, some in residential homes. Their needs are very well catered for."

As an experienced social worker in a fairly wealthy local authority (having also worked in very deprived ones), I can't say that I've come across "many" with needs who are "very well catered for". We are being hit by hard cuts despite council tax hikes and, as I said, we are a wealthy area. Sadly, basic needs are not met, let alone going above this.

I have to raise issue with the point that older people only get to keep £10 per week. If this is the case, they need an urgent review. This is not the general rule. The personal expense allowance is £24.90 per week for people of state pension age. Secondly, the needs of younger people are equal in worthiness to the needs of older people but they are not the same hence why most areas have specialist teams.

MN is not short of threads about people who do an activity they enjoy but which doesn't make a profit - be it cup-cake-making or writing gamer apps.

And every time, posters come on to point out that if it has no chance of making a profit and is primarily for enjoyment, then it's a hobby not a business. I think we need that sort of distinction here.

MrsJayy that sounds really demoralising, being told you "hadn't worked out" when you thought you were doing fine.

"People who depend on their wages from their work to pay their bills, even if they also receive top-ups like other low-paid workers" would be the longer version of my shorthand "bill-paying disabled people".

Dixie so a business helps someone who wouldn't be able to find work elsewhere and when it's no longer viable for them to perform what is basically an act of charity they're an arsehole?

Having someone working for you for £5 a day seems like charity going in the other direction tbh.

No, they shouldn't devalue a person's labour disability or not.
Fair days work for a fair days pay.

It's only the employers who believe disabled people are less productive. It's a prejudice that isn't always true.

Why don't you try it and let us know how you get on?
I am about as likely to 'try it' as I am to allow my son to be devalued and exploited.

But like I said, those people who are cool with disabled people getting shafted should volunteer to take the hit for them instead.

Yes yes, absolutely, I'm sure MrsJayy was indeed doing well.

It's a particular cruelty of this sort of deceit, that it can leave the laid-off "supported worker" feeling that "things didn't work out" due to their own failings and they haven't been good enough.

Which may be worse for the person than never getting involved in the first place.

If I had an adult child with a significant learning difficulty (low IQ rather than dyslexia) I would rather they had a supervised job at less than the minimum wage and got to socialise with other people and feel they were contributing to society and making something than that they stayed at home on ESA because an employer had to pay the minimum wage so would rather have someone who could think and work faster.
I do think people with significant learning difficulties (what used to be called mental handicap) need extra protection and legislation so they are included in our society despite them working more slowly and needing more supervision. There used to be protected schemes for them but they have mainly been abolished.

With respect.. you cant possibly say that you know what you would feel about a hypothetical child

People here with actual real children in this situation have said they object to the less than NMW idea.

Why do people who say "with respect" always continue their sentence by totally dismissing what you say because you disagree with them?

My DS, who has ASD and mild LD, did so many supported work and volunteer schemes after leaving college that he became more and more fed up, saying that he wanted to be paid. The local Job Centre, in the end, really pulled the stops out and he got a job in a supermarket cafe. This was fine for him as he has qualifications in food hygiene. We had a meeting with the management team and told them that, if they gave him a chance to settle in, he would probably become one of their best workers in the longer term. We are very pleased that they did give him that chance and now he has worked there for over a year, for more than minimum wage. They have given him more hours, he offers to do loads of overtime and he has had recognition from customers and the management. We have had to go in and sort out a few issues from time to time, but it is going well so far.

It just shows what can happen when someone like DS is given a chance.

Is the cafe the size if a football pitch? More likely they'd have 1 person over seeing them in case of any problems.

It was quite big, as I said, with tables much more spaced out that usual. Even though it was only cafe food it was also table service, every time I went the waiter would come to the table with a helper and the helper would help, not just stand there. I was years ago, before tablet computers, the waiters would have this sort of wax tablet that they would make marks on with a scraper to take your order. Some of them had a big pad that they could tick boxes on for your order, always with a helper.

If the only way a place like this could operate was to pay the LD staff less than NMW then I would rather it stayed open than closed because it couldn't afford MW.

I was trying to think of a job that the staff at this cafe could do with the same speed, accuracy and efficiency as a non LD person and the only thing I could think of was fashion model, even then they would need a helper to get them to photo shoots. I'm sure there must be other jobs they could do without support though.

Oh yawn.

Ok forget the with respect bit. Which was me trying to politely disagree.

I think this is a disgusting idea. I have quite severe disabilities, to the extent that I've sailed through PIP and ESA assessments and been awarded the highest rates for the longest periods. I don't identify with the idea that I need to be in paid employment to feel that I'm contributing to society or to have an opportunity to interact with other people. I am certainly not confined to my home just because I'm on ESA and I have a good and active social life and interests so employment doesn't offer me anything I don't already have in my life, and I hate the idea that I must be trapped if I'm claiming benefits. I'm afraid I'm not interested in wiping down tables in a cafe just because other people think it's good for me - I would rather be doing my craft hobbies or catching up with friends.

I've done some volunteering in the past but I don't feel I owe it to anyone to 'pay back' to society and now I prefer to focus on my own interests. If I am going to be expected to go out and work and sacrifice my time and effort for an employer then I would expect to be paid the same rate as anyone else. Anything else would be exploitation.