To think most Dubai naysayers are hypocrites

[WhisperedLoudest]

Not at TAAT more a TAA lot of threads.

Repeatedly on MN people say they'd never go to Dubai because of Human Rights issues at the same time as announcing they'd much rather go to do yoga in India or sightseeing in Morocco.

It seems rather hypocritical and an attitude that is very particular to Dubai and I suspect something to do with being perceived as trashy not disagreeing there

So if you have objections to Dubai on moral grounds where do you go? Do you apply same strict standard to other countries.

I've often asked on those threads where people do go but never received much of a response.

I wouldn't go to Dubai or indeed any country where women are treated like second class citizens, wherever that may be. Sadly in this badly broken world there's quite a few.

I'd still go to France or Venice if I had the chance.

Vegas is different to Dubai though. Vegas is just obviously tacky and doesn't take itself too seriously, it's just good fun.

Dubai seems to think it's the height of class and luxury whereas actually it's just vulgar and souless. Let's build the tallest tower, let's makes an enormous sand island, let's swing our willies about and show everyone they are the biggest.

No thanks.

I live in the Middle East - not Dubai but close. It's okay, I'll freely admit I'm here for the money but more and more taxes are being put on expats so I doubt I'll be staying here longer.

It's okay but not somewhere I'd want to settle down.

So Sonjadog your response is to make sneery comments about (what you perceive to be) other people's sneers comments? Aren't you just defining yourself to be the arbiter of correct virtue signalling, the thing you accuse others of?

I think refusing to be part of something corrupt is doing something about it. That can lead to the corrupt thing withering. Arguably, that is in some circumstances better than actively fighting it, because a very combative situation can be confusing. Hence passive non-compliance as a resistance strategy.

Especially if you share with others why you are refusing to do that thing. Telling other people that you consider something to be corrupt and why is doing something.

Accusing people of hypocrisy and lack of comprehension when they voice something you are uncomfortable hearing, rather than giving a reasoned argument why that thing is actually ok/beneficial, that's just lazy.

And as I have said, I go to countries that are far from perfect. This is about a line in the sand. Do some people really have no line in the sand? Would you have went on holiday to apartheid South Africa?

Being a brown part Thai-part Indian woman, let me confirm that I experienced no discrimination in Dubai. Nor was I treated like a 2nd class citizen. I didn't wear a burkha or a hijab or an abaya - in fact I spent most of the holidays there in sleeveless knee length dresses. I have also travelled there for work, invited by a a consortium of rich local businesswomen, for the launch of a lingerie chain.

Dubai is where the rich arab women go to shop for their clothes. It's where they go to get designer Islamic-inspired clothing (Louis Vuitton hijabs for example, or Chanel Abayas). It's where they go when they want a holiday. And when Dubai transitions from oil to finance the UAE will become the business & finance capital of the region. By the way this expansion is driven by professional Indian and Asian talent - most of the COOs I met were Indian.

But sure cling on to your ill-informed ideas.

I know that rich Arabs have no issue in Dubai. Sorry to hear though you don't care about virtual slavery there.

There's a lot that's nasty about Dubai and its history and set up. But then you could say that about many countries. It's very difficult to determine which are objectively 'worse'.

It's become a scapegoat. That's probably not 100% justified, but that's the case for most scapegoats.

There's a clear psychological function. Focusing on one scapegoat and actively/aggressively condemning it makes us feel better about the other less than wonderful things we support by buying/visiting/etc.

So I'd conclude that loudly vetoing Dubai is as much about middle class virtue signalling than anything else. But that's very different to quietly avoiding it because you don't much fancy it.

The UK, the USA, Spain, Portugal and France (to name a few) were built on slavery and oppression, are people boycotting these places too?

You'd be hard pressed to find a country that's exploited poor underdogs to make itself rich more than the UK during its colonial history.

But you don't see much hand-wringing about that. 'It happened a long time ago' seems to be an easy way to let ourselves off the hook.

I wouldn't want to visit Dubai for a holiday- it's just not my cup of tea and seems a fake, plastic shiny place with the main appeal being endless shopping malls and buying designer crap that costs hundreds of pounds.

Shopping is not really my thing any more (need to save the ££!) and I have never been into shoes & designers handbags.

It would be very low down on my list of places to go, if others love it and go every year, well that's up to them and how they want to spend their time and money.

The wider issue of human rights violations etc I do not know a great deal of detail about, but lets just say I am put off Dubai just by its superficial, fake image

I was in Qatar last week and I'm off to Dubai in 2 weeks time. I've not missed an annual trip to Dubai, in March, since 1993 so I've seen it change from a virtual desert with just a couple of hotels into the thriving metropolis it is now.

I mix with a lot of the Indian/Pakistani workers and generally find them to be happy with their jobs, lifestyle and the money they can earn to send home to their families. Of course among the thousands of companies there will be some bad ones. The same can be true of some companies operating here on zero hour contracts etc.

I also see how women can really do well in the workplace. Three of the organisations I work with have ladies in powerful positions. You also tend to find that a lot of energetic PR teams are led by ladies.

Both Qatar and Dubai are very safe places to live in and to holiday in. I'd say there is less chance of terrorist activity there than in London at the present.

PhilODox - why won't you go to singapore?

So if you have objections to Dubai on moral grounds where do you go? Do you apply same strict standard to other countries.

Yes, yes I do.

The fact that I do not have so much money I can throw it out of the window for travelling to a country where I could be incarcerated because a man decided to rape me, probably helps.

I am middle aged. I remember being accused of being a hypocrite for refusing to buy products from apartheid South Africa - because "other countries were just as bad".
Whatever moral judgement you make, some will always criticise.

Kimann- Singapore is an oppressive regime. It is a democracy in the way Zimbabwe is. The ruling party controls 90% of seats, has been in power since the 50s, and regularly punishes opposition politicians and regions that vote against it, and intervenes in legal cases. There are numerous human rights abuses, media censorship, no right to protest etc. It is a crime to be homosexual, foreign domestic workers are treated appallingly (as in Dubai), they have capital punishment.

What is it that draws you to such a place, kimann?

Why Seychelles PhilODox?

And sorry, whomever mentioned Seychelles, again, homosexuality is a crime there.

Ha- x-post

I think this whole all countries are EQUALLY bad is a really weird way of thinking. No one seriously believes that, do they? They're just saying it, surely.

All the drinking water in Dubai is desalinated, which as a process is really environmentally unfriendly . There is no natural occurring water there so everyone who goes there and drinks water (never mind washing, swimming or visiting an aquarium) is contributing to massive damage to the environment. That's just one of the many things that puts me off.

I don't like shopping, that's all people seem to do there, go to malls.

I don't like shopping, that's all people seem to do there, go to malls.

For some people the whole point of a holiday is shopping. It's not for me.

My great-grand aunt was shot between the eyes by the British government in Chandigarth during the Indian revolution. She was three years old. There are many people in India who still remember the atrocities the British government comitted. But you don't see them boycotting Britain.

You guys need to get your judgemental heads out of your asses.

Astoria- but why don't they? I want to know why they wouldn't when so many were treated so very badly during colonial times.