To think most Dubai naysayers are hypocrites

[WhisperedLoudest]

Not at TAAT more a TAA lot of threads.

Repeatedly on MN people say they'd never go to Dubai because of Human Rights issues at the same time as announcing they'd much rather go to do yoga in India or sightseeing in Morocco.

It seems rather hypocritical and an attitude that is very particular to Dubai and I suspect something to do with being perceived as trashy not disagreeing there

So if you have objections to Dubai on moral grounds where do you go? Do you apply same strict standard to other countries.

I've often asked on those threads where people do go but never received much of a response.

Norway has been number one on the democracy index since 2010 if that's relevant. I see the US has slipped down but when they have the death penalty anyway whoever is President then it doesn't mean much imo

What is it that draws you to such a place, kimann?

PhilODox - i am from there.

The ruling party controls 90% of seats, has been in power since the 50s, and regularly punishes opposition politicians and regions that vote against it, and intervenes in legal cases.

I actually like and support the ruling party. The PAP has been good to us and was instrumental in giving us independence from Malaysia. If it ain't broke... is it perfect? No, but show me a government that is.I know who you are referring to when you say 'punishes opposition politicians' - let me tell you he/his party wasn't as angelic as he made them out to be.

There are numerous human rights abuses, media censorship, no right to protest etc.

Singapore is a very conservative state, has been for as long as i can remember, censorship is just an extension of this conservative stance. You can actually protest, i have seen a few public demonstrations there. i don't think I've ever seen a strike though - but who wants those?

It is a crime to be homosexual

Yes - this has to change and i hope it does. I have many friends who are gay/lesbians and while they are happy to be 'out', i do wish the country gives them the same rights as a conventional couple.

foreign domestic workers are treated appallingly (as in Dubai),

Not completely true. Maybe in the past it was more prevalent but there are more laws and harsher punishments now for those who are treated badly. It is ten-fold worse in HK, let me assure you (although two wrongs don't make a right)

they have capital punishment

I agree with this - personal reasons i won't go into though.

Singapore is great, not perfect but when looking at other countries surrounding it and bearing in mind what a young country it is - it's pretty good.

And its not against the law to chew gum.

Bambambini i would agree -- but then again, i might be biased (a little!)

There isn't a holiday spot on the face of the planet you can't find moral objections too if you try hard enough. If not going to, let us say, Ruritania, makes you feel good, fine, don't go to Ruritania, but don't boast about it and don't have a go at others, especially colleagues at work, who choose to go there. Not your business.

It's great that homosexuality is a felony?
It's great that criminals can be put to death?
I have different ideas and ideals, obviously.

PhilODox - no, i agree that homosexuality should not be a felony, as i said, this needs to change.

I loved it!
Stayed on-route to the Maldives.
Stayed for 4 nights in The Atlantis The Palm and spent 3 days in the water park- bliss in the heat.
Had afternoon tea up the Burj Kalifa and bought a Michael Kors handbag.

This pretty much sums up why it's not for me. That and the human rights/anti-women laws.

BillSykesDog, what utter bollocks. Any religion is welcome in Dubai, they have churches and other places of worship. All religions are welcome.

Yeah, you missed out the bit where I said 'the rest of the ME'. But as it goes, it is very religiously oppressive. All citizens are defined as Muslims and have no choice in that (aside from ex pats) conversion to other religions is punishable by death and lose all rights to their property and children. There is also discrimination against Shia Muslims.

That's a funny old idea of 'not religiously repressive' that you have.

you might dismiss people as hypocritical but at least they are trying to be ethical rather than not caring

Kimann- that was to bambambini

Womanwithout- I thought that was a pisstake post!

PhilODox - my apologies, thought that was for me

I would never visit Dubai. There are plenty of other places I would never visit either. Having principles can be inconvenient, but they're well worth it for peace of mind, at least in that one small thing. I don't talk about my principles unless the subject comes up. Nor do I attack others who don't share my priorities. It's a personal thing.

No one has mentioned FGM yet. Can I point out to the 'Dubai naysayers are hypocrites' brigade that FGM is legal in the UAE?

Government hospitals will no longer perform it because of the bad publicity, but it's perfectly legal to cut a little girl's clitoris off in other medical clinics, or indeed to do it at home. In fact, Dubai is becoming an FGM destination for foreign families who don't want it done by Granny with a rusty razor blade, but are fine with a 'respectable' medical clitoroidectomy performed by someone with medical training in a shiny clinic. (In fact, the medicalisation of FGM is a growing problem - for some people, having it done in a hospital is an acceptable compromise between tradition and modernity. That it involves mutilating a little girl's genitals is irrelevant, clearly.)

There was a hideous case when I was living in Dubai of an estranged American wife and Emirati husband - I think the wife and their little girl had left the country and were living elsewhere in the ME, and the little girl went back to visit her father in the UAE and was subjected to FGM on her weekend with Daddy.

I live in Dubai. I've just had a normal working day like everyone else and am just winding down for the weekend.
Life is very good here for those who are educated or have a skill.
Its safe here too. I once almost got beaten up on Princes Street in Edinburgh just simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That would never happen me here.

Life is very good here for those who are educated or have a skill.

Well that's all fine then. Socks for those lovers living in shipping containers, but life can't be good for everyone, eh?

*losers

whomever mentioned Seychelles, again, homosexuality is a crime there.

Good news PhilODox - you can put the Seychelles back on the holiday list here

It wasn't great for me when I was at home, jobless for six months and running out of money.
I appreciate what you're saying, but I was a single, jobless middle aged woman who had to eat.
I was offered a dig out from joblessness and indigence and I took it.

If people really are moral/principled/altruistic enough to cross so many holiday destinations off their lists then that is very admirable.

I couldn't live like that though.

Dubai isn't on my list of places to go so that one in particular doesn't affect me.
However, I spent last Summer in Russia. Hugely corrupt, politics are frightening and (apparently) it's massively homophobic and quite openly racist. Do I think that's ok? Of course not. Did I care enough for it to mean that I would never see St Basil's Cathedral, the Bolshoi and Marinsky ballet companies/theatres, the Kremlin, the Hermitage, Peterhof, Church of Spilled Blood, Red Square and so much more? Absolutely not!

Same with Brazil. I've done a lot of voluntary work there and know how bad the attitudes towards and treatment of disabled people and street/very poor children can be. I know how corrupt their government is too and I've seen lots of ingrained racism. But not a chance would I have let that stopped me from going on holidays to the Amazon, Rio de Janeiro and Iguassu Falls; indescribable experiences of a lifetime.

I enjoyed South Africa less (was there for teaching but had some leisure time) but still had some incredible opportunities - pony trekking and hiking through the mountains in Lesotho, for example, isn't something I'd have missed because of the countries appalling ideas about HIV/Aids and the racism in South Africa.

I would not have travelled the golden triangle in India because of the Dalit or not have 'done' New York, Washington and Boston because of their politics either.

It might make me an awful person but I'm just not selfless enough to holiday in Wales and Cornwall all my life!! (both lovely places that I enjoy going to a lot but not enough on their own, imo). I love seeing places and other cultures, religions and societies fascinate me, good or bad.

Ok but no one read the post where a PP said she would never go to ANY african or asian countries because she dislikes their cultures and religions ???

That's right. Every culture, every single one across two whole extremely large continents. I don't even think we know about a good few of them, but you can be sure PP doesnt like them. Because they're all regressive... or something.

Anyway, Dubai just doesn't appeal to me as a place to visit. I'm not really into shopping and bars and nightlife for the entire holiday. I think some of the naysaying comes from it being seen as chavvy and "overdone" but it's a valid point to boycot countries with human rights abuses. The point is to be honest and consistent - is that why you're sneery about Dubai holidays? Or is it seen as tacky? Do you consistently avoid cities and countries with bad hr records?

Hey, thanks for that, gini.

It's great that homosexuality is a felony?
It's great that criminals can be put to death?
I have different ideas and ideals, obviously.

Yes, just focus on certain aspects and ignore the positives and how they have managed to build a society that tries to meet the needs of every citizen - instead if just the richest. So, don't look at it's short history and how it compares to it's neighbours.

I hope that has quietened you now Dusty.
I'm not Adolf Hitler. I'm just trying to keep body and soul together.
it's not all about your beliefs - other people have lives you know, and we all need to eat.