To think most Dubai naysayers are hypocrites

[WhisperedLoudest]

Not at TAAT more a TAA lot of threads.

Repeatedly on MN people say they'd never go to Dubai because of Human Rights issues at the same time as announcing they'd much rather go to do yoga in India or sightseeing in Morocco.

It seems rather hypocritical and an attitude that is very particular to Dubai and I suspect something to do with being perceived as trashy not disagreeing there

So if you have objections to Dubai on moral grounds where do you go? Do you apply same strict standard to other countries.

I've often asked on those threads where people do go but never received much of a response.

Human Rights Watch welcomes this FAC Inquiry. It is long overdue for the UK parliament to examine and debate UK relations towards these important countries. The main focus of our submission is FCO policy on human rights towards Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and other Gulf states. We identify some very serious rights abuses in each of these countries and make some recommendations for how the FCO can better help protect and promote human rights there

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmfaff/88/88we08.htm

This is intro to this ^ report.

It's a bit old 2012. Human Rights watch submission to Parliament.

You don't have to believe individuals there is plenty of evidence.

I would not visit a country with a Human Rights record like this. After that you can consider the attitude towards LGBTQ people.

If you can square your suntan with your conscience well done.

Watch the film in the link belowabout expat workers. There are definitely no issues with women's rights in the UAE, in terms of them being educated, working and in positions of power! read up! m.thenational.ae/uae/a-place-called-home-documentary

I went recently. One of the things that made me uncomfortable was seeing the migrant workers trying to find shade in the 45 deg heat. They looked sweltering and even though in summer the building stops from midday-3pm, it was still too hot to even sit outside so i felt terrible for the builders.

Ive been to a few "poor" african countries but didnt feel the unease I did in Dubai. It's also the hierachy, with the indian and african workers being viewed as lesser that made me feel sad.

I wouldnt really go there for a beach holiday, the beaches are not very lovely or scenic.

I've not flown for 13 years and the list of places I want to go is very short. The list doesn't include the countries with the highest human rights violations. I can honestly say this is one area I'm not a hypocrite about.

I'm sure I'm a hypocrite about other things though

Go to the malls and you will see people in sleeveless tops every day of the week.

So you're saying you can flout the laws if you're in a mall. So presumably they're more relaxed if it's your cash you're spending in their big, shiny shops?
Even more if so. Do what you like if you're splashing the cash inside our shopping centres. Lovely. Not.
I'd think it pig ignorant of people swanking around uncovered in a shopping mall, even. If you go somewhere with different rules, you abide by their laws and customs.
Which is why I don't want to go - I don't agree with the covering up and hiding away of women, and arresting them if they're unfortunate to get raped "as they've had extra marital sex (which actually happened fairly recently)
Although I suppose it's all OK if you've got sparkly, shiny shops to browse and lovely hot weather and beaches. Makes it all OK then.

It's all the worst sort of smug virtue signalling, often by people who don't actually have the option to go there anyway so it's a moot point.

There are polical / moral problems with a lot of countries - you'd be a hypocrite to say you won't go to one but you'd go to another!

This is the point of view I genuinely can't understand. Really. Do you not understand/accept degrees, or differences in things? Do you think all good things are equally good, all bad things are equally bad.

I have noticed people saying that a lot recently: eg. "Hilary is as bad as Trump," "They are all as bad as each other," but I thought it was just an unthinking turn of phrase.

I've had boyfriends who were annoying. They had lots of 'problems'. But I still wouldn't shag Hitler.

Does that make me a hypocrite?

Even if you decide you're not bothered re the other human rights stuff (!!) surely from a self preservation point of view it is best to avoid a country where rape =adultery and the victim is punished. I notice none of the Dubai apologists have addressed this issue.

"It's all the worst sort of smug virtue signalling, often by people who don't actually have the option to go there anyway so it's a moot point."

What makes you say it is virtue signalling, Lemonsandlimes? Would you describe the protests outside the South African embassy and the boycotting of SA products during the apartheid years as virtue signalling as well?

If you go on holiday to Dubai, be prepared to be judged for it by people who feel very strongly about the myriad issues being discussed on this thread. Writing us off as "virtue signallers" smacks of desperation to me.

It is not being unreasonable to want to be able to legally kiss in public hold hands even if not married or wear a sleeveless top on holiday."

*In practice you can do all of these things and nobody would be rude enough to comment, but it is polite not to do so. Go to the malls and you will see people in sleeveless tops every day of the week.

I know I sound like a complete Dubai apologist - I'm not, just can't stand some of the ignorant comments that are being made.*

Whilst you may think my comments are ignorant they come directly from the UK governments advice.

It is not being unreasonable to want to be able to legally kiss in public hold hands even if not married or wear a sleeveless top on holiday."

In practice you can do all of these things and nobody would be rude enough to comment, but it is polite not to do so. Go to the malls and you will see people in sleeveless tops every day of the week.*

Whilst you may think my comments are ignorant they come directly from the UK foreign office.

www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/local-laws-and-customs

Whilst I would not judge someone for where they holiday you should not judge someone because of where they wouldn't holiday for real and practical reasons. Otherwise I am afraid it is you who is ignorant.

ive been to dubai

would not recommend

Virtue signaling = taking a moral stance

OK I'll admit to the horrendous crime of making moral judgments before I make purchases. What an absolute bitch I am.

But I still wouldn't shag Hitler lmao

what sort of desperation! Why on earth would I feel desperate about where others go on holiday?

Dubai is great fun.

roarityroar

Dubai is great fun

For you, not so much for the poor sods tricked into slave labour to build your hotel. Hey ho!

Well you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la I don't care", which is fine, but it doesn't mean that the people who do care are smug virtue signallers. If you can't defend Dubai you take the (slightly desperate) measure of mocking the people who are critical of that country.

It's all the worst sort of smug virtue signalling, often by people who don't actually have the option to go there anyway so it's a moot point.

So, because I don't have as much money as you, I am not entitled to an opinion and am a hypocrite for saying that I would not go there even if I had the money?
(Though I am pretty sure I could afford to go there, IF I WANTED to WASTE money. Which, incidentally, I do not want.)

Watch the film in the link belowabout expat workers. There are definitely no issues with women's rights in the UAE, in terms of them being educated, working and in positions of power! read up!

The suffragettes, i.e. the women who fought for your voting rights were educated, working, and living in a country where it had been established a long time before that a woman could be ruling Queen.

I remain sceptical.

I've had boyfriends who were annoying. They had lots of 'problems'. But I still wouldn't shag Hitler.

Ah, but you don't actually have the option to shag Hitler, since he's long dead. Therefore, you aren't entitled to an opinion.

Would you shag Trump? (I fully believe you have that option. He can't exactly be choosy with his looks.)

(I wouldn't. But I never was with an annyoing man, so I am not a hypocrite. :P)

I disagree, I am merely of the viewpoint that taking a moral stance that you never actually have to follow through on is virtue signalling. It's like being very righteous about the fur trade when you have neither the means or the desire to have a fur coat. I have no problem with people holding these views, I do have an issue when they come on and berate others who hold different views and are in different circumstances.

OK I'll admit to the horrendous crime of making moral judgments before I make purchases. What an absolute bitch I am.

Quite often you are not allowed to make a moral judgment and say so on MN. Because you are being smug/virtue signalling/hypocritical/judgemental.

Vegetarian? Don't be stupid, animals will die anyway. Stop preaching.
Don't eat fish because of overfishing? Oh because that will make a difference! Har har har
Dry your clothes on the line rather than tumble dry and urge others to do the same? Don't be ridiculous - there are a billion Chinese with a coal fired power station each. You have a computer don't you - hypocrite!
Avoid Nestle? Stop preaching and being so boring! My kids love blue Smarties!
Ditto walking rather than driving
Ditto not washing your towels after every use
Ditto not drinking out of plastic bottles

God forbid that we should actually make an informed decision and judgment, and try and live our lives on the basis of it.

I could easily afford to go to Dubai for a long holiday tomorrow if I wanted to! You are talking rubbish.

Sukey very good list but you missed off the new criteria for virtue signalling Vestal has created.

Would you shag Trump if you have ever had an annoying boyfriend?

We believe the option is available and you are being a virtue signalling hypocrite if you say no.

I confess my main reason for not going to Dubai is because it looks dull as shit. I have friend who loves it bit the things that she loves (shopping, unfathomable heat, shiny new buildings) are not things that I tolerate easily. But I wouldn't knowingly choose to go somewhere for pleasure that has such a madonna/whore attitude to women actually ingrained into law or where I'd be illegal due to my sexuality. I don't fancy being arrested. It doesn't seem relaxing at all. I love beaches but not ones where the sand burns your feet off. Northumberland is nice for beaches. As for shopping, that's a chore, not a fun holiday activity.
I'd rather be a hypocrite and make a bit of an effort than merrily piss all over everything and be unhypocritical. I'm a hypocrite because I am vegetarian for animal rights reasons but I will happily drink a glass of milk, and I eat cheese most days, even though I know how shit the dairy industry is. Shoot me.

bibbity - but you don't want to go do you. So taking a moral stance against something you don't want to do anyway is IMO virtue signalling for want of a better phrase.

Celticlassie Thu 02-Mar-17 13:46:40
"All the drinking water in Dubai is desalinated, which as a process is really environmentally unfriendly . There is no natural occurring water there so everyone who goes there and drinks water (never mind washing, swimming or visiting an aquarium) is contributing to massive damage to the environment. "

This. If I go to the US, I am not actually encouraging them to have capital punishment; Morocco do not give women a hard time to please me. But if I visit a hotel in Dubai, I am very much part of a serious problem: the environment is being wrecked to get my money.