Ok - another trans thead

[Bambambini]

This is more about logic and free speech than simply Trans issues. A catholic group paid to advertise their message on a bus that Girls have vulvas and boys have penises. Seems it was a reaction to a similar ad promoting that girls have penises and boys have vulvas. Aibu to be concerned that logic and free speech is under attack? Why was one claim allowed and another censored? This seems to be a sign of the times and I'm getting worried. Who is choosing which ideas, agendas are allowed and promoted?

Personally, I prefer a male. In my experience they have caused less pain and been so much more gentle. Where when I have had smears and stuff off females they don't seem to care about comfort as much.

That is possibly because some women have internalised misogyny and think that you should just "deal with it", because they have to, too.

Decent men know that they have no idea how much pain something they do could cause to a female body and will therefore be extra careful and gentle.

Considering that transwomen who demand to be considered actually female claim to know what a woman feels like, I highly doubt you would have that advantage with a transwoman.

gender is not a natural indication of who will assault

But that is not true, is it?

Of 100 people who have committed a sexual assault, 98 of them will be male.

So if the new self-identification rules are passed, a man can be legally declared a women without any hormone treatment or surgery. If they are then allocated to deal with someone who has asked for a woman, and they are refused - is the patient committing a transphobic hate crime? Should they be denied treatment because they are refusing someone who is legally female?

But taking prosecution based evidence just overrides the personal experience of so many people as I've seen at my support group as well as myself. It's not an alternative fact, it's something we are fighting to establish- but it doesn't get taken to court because society expects it doesn't happen, and society says it can't happen because it doesn't get prosecutions.

I expect it's different in big cities but I think I'm right in saying you may not be able to insist on having a woman police doctor, not unless you're prepared to wait for one to be called. When I accompanied a friend to the rape suite there was only one doctor on duty, and we had to wait for him to arrive. He was immensely kind and reassuring, so my friend didn't mind. I don't think there's likely to be a choice of doctor in the middle of the night.

blanket statement of it being inappropriate for the professional or whatever to be MtF. That's unfair and prohibitive.

It's not "unfair and prohibitive" unless you care about a transperson's right to validate their personal genderfeelz against the will of someone who has just undergone a hugely traumatic experience more than you do about the feelings of the victim. Why should they be put in that position where they are pressured and guilt tripped at this time?

It's not about ruling out MtTs, it's about taking away the vulnerable patient's right to request they be treated by a female (or a male if that's their choice). This new post-truth era asks us to accept that someone is whatever they say they are despite clear evidence to the contrary.

But surely you can just say 'can I have another doctor?'
I've asked that question because the doctor looked upsettingly like a family member and much of my abuse was in the home.
It's not transphobic to say 'can I have a different doctor' or to look the practice staff up and say 'can I have an appointment with Dr. Female Trustworthyface'. That's appropriate self care. Objecting to trans doctors being able to use the pronoun they want is so different to just asking for someone else.

Omg, Vestal! I'm a lesbian. I'm only attracted to long haired transwomen who present as male, and who don't even identify as trans but surely that still qualifies? I can go to Pride! I can get one of those cool flags!

rixera

I totally agree that any assault, regardless of the sex of the perpetrator is traumatic. I'm sure that the risk of pregnancy and sometimes the overwhelming strength of a male perpetrator is offset by the fact that if a woman does it there are other traumatising issues peculiar that that.

And I also understand that across the board, there is a lack of reporting and a lack of conviction. However, most crimes, in general, not just violent or sexual, are committed by men (something like 86%). They are also more likely to commit murder - 90% of murders are committed by men. A crime where there will be a little ambiguity over the evidence.

So although it is wrong to minimise in any way crimes committed by women, the fact remains that most crimes, general, violent and sexual are committed by men.

Therefore women's safety and fears of boundry violation are entirely rational. And any man who insists, or goes out of his way to demand access, is an extra risk.

(I object to the fact a patient requesting a female doctor can end up with a man, because that mans right to self identify as a woman, and their feeling that they are a woman and must treat someone knowingly against that patients wishes to validate themselves as a woman, override the patients feelings.

Totally.

I honestly think this is just another derail attempt..sounds ridiculously MRA like to be saying that women assault at the same rate as men just noone reports women doing it..when all evidence says otherwise. And seemingly basing this on the male/female victim rate of one support group.

Objecting to trans doctors being able to use the pronoun they want is so different to just asking for someone else.

Noone is giving a crap ab out anyones pronouns though? They are giving a crap about someones sex. Pronouns mean nothing.

But taking prosecution based evidence just overrides the personal experience of so many people as I've seen at my support group as well as myself.

It's not just "prosecution based evidence" that men are more sexually violent than women. Not all male rapists are prosecuted. A tiny proportion of rapists are convicted.

90% of murders are committed by men. A crime where there will be a little ambiguity over the evidence.

But but...women murder at the same rate as men!!!11!! They are just as violent. Their victims just don't get found. I know this as I know one person who had a family member murdered by a male, and one who had a family member go missing. the one that went missing was obviously murdered by a female even though there is no evidence of this. Known statistics mean nothing. its all about 'could be's

So it's ok for the patient to be in the position of having to refuse a doctor that they've been told that is female who is a transwomen, when they might be accused of a transphobic hate crime if they mention why they want another doctor/HCP?

You'd hope that any doctor/HCP who was trans would be sympathetic, but there will always be the chance they wouldn't be. Especially as so much about trans activism seems to be about forcing other people to validate their beliefs about themselves.

Sorry my humour is slightly black. I mean no offense to anyone who has had a family member or friend murdered. I shouldn't have made a sarcastic comment about something so serious. I jut find this entire 'women do it too!!' argument to be ridiculous given nothing at all backs up that women commit at the same rate or even a slightly similar rate, as men.

I absolutely couldn't give a fuck what pronouns people assign to themselves. I give a fuck about having to walk on eggshells around them personally, but to their face I'd use them. Out of courtesy and because apparently it's the most terrible hate crime ever not to do so and I could get into trouble. Which I believe is batshit.

gender is not a natural indication of who will assault

Well, that's true. I personally would not trust someone who assures he has a ladybrain to be less likely to assault.
Hair length is also not an indication.

Sex, however, very much is an indication of who is more likely to assault.

There is no need even to look up statistics. I am pretty sure any woman who goes out more than me has a pretty good idea of how many people who have groped her, sent her pictures of their genitals, shown their genitals to her without being asked, or have said inappropriate things to her, are male, and how many are female.

Even I with my low-risk lifestyle have experienced verbal sexual harrassment on the internet and in real life from several men, but no women.

Even IF women were just as likely to rape as men, they would still not be able to cause the additional harm of unwanted pregnancy, and it would still be easier to fight a female rapist than a male one, statistically - or are you going to claim that the differences in female and male musculature are also not real?

You're right about the sex of doctors and how it affects care. My DF was a GP and had problems with a woman doctor in the practice because of how she treated certain conditions. Having had very easy periods and short, easy labours, this woman flatly didn't believe in severe period pain and was totally unsympathetic to any gynae or obstetric problem. He assumed women were telling him the truth about their problems because, as a man, he had no experience of female physiology and it's pretty counterintuitive to think female patients lie habitually. As I recall it was quite tricky. There had been complaints but there wasn't much the other doctors could do apart from taking on any unhappy patients themselves. Given that the team wanted a woman doctor because they didn't have one and felt patients should have a choice, her turning out to be totally unsympathetic to women's reproductive health issues was very disappointing.

I know what you mean Prawn but I think that is also an artefact of societal misogyny, that women just have to STFU and put up with crap. Many many women enable this.

Well I'm no fan of Catholicism, it is misogynist and patriarchal, like other religions.

Nor am I a fan of science deniers, I find them misogynist and patriarchal too.

Biological fact. Sex is determined by external genitals. Males have testicles and a penis and internally a prostate. Females have a vulva, clitoris with hood, urinary outlet, labia vaginal opening and glands; and internal organs vagina, cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries. Some humans are born with undetermined external genitalia, but these humans are rare.

On seeing sex they will be given a gender, boy or girl who will grow up to be woman or man, and this is done now 95% of the time pre birth. With a gendered name as well.

It is assumed that most girls will be princesses and like pink and that most boys will be princes and like blue.

Gender and biological sex (determined before birth), are clearly different.

There are biological determinants that cannot be ignored, for example puberty. Those wishing to change gender cannot ignore this if their wish to do so occurs before puberty.

Your not understanding Bev! its not about vulnerable women they are not important. What is important is"if man say im a ting den im a ting innit"
Females are not here to be living breathing individual entities, we are here to bend to the will of males because that is our place in life.