..in thinking this isn't a fair method of discipline?

[yorkshirelass79]

Message withdrawn

Easy. It was me driving, but teenage daughter takes the rap.

They wouldn't believe you Pann - she's perfick, remember?

yes

Harpsi, sorry but that's a pretty poor analogy

why's that kitty?

'cos, if they don't know who's driving then the owner of said car gets the rap and there's a difference between what is the law and what is a poor/good/ indifferent response to a given situation

....pretends to read newspaper, though it's upside down......searches for tissues, needed later poss...>>

er well yes that's my point, they don't apply punishment to anyone who might be implicated and if they didn't you would be almightily pissed off.
but you can't really comment on traffic matters kitty can you as you have never been involved in traffic policing have you

Hmm. So children have no right to fair treatment because they don't own things.

Most of the apologists for this spurious and bone idle practice have said that it teaches children something useful about collective responsibility and life being unfair etc. IF collective responsibility applied to adults, as per HC's analogy, THEN that defence would be valid. Which it doesn't, and therefore isn't

You are splitting hairs again, kitty

sorry I mean if they did
am speaking to MIL on phone so not fully concentrating

absolutely right - collective responsibility doesn't apply to adults generally. all this practice teaches children is that adults sometimes behave in a capricious and unjust way. I don't think that's a bad lesson to learn as part of life's rich pattern etc, but I don't particularly think it is something for teacher's (or anyone in authority) to aspire too or use as justification

'tis true

I'm not, as I've said a particular advocate of the punish all routine, but I have used it and it does have its place in a classroom situation.
The difference between that and traffic policing is that one has laws and rules,hat we should all be reasonably au fait with, whether we are traffic cops or not!!

It's the pedagogical equivalent of the "Shurrup or I'll bang yer fuckin 'eads together" school of parentcraft

yep, there's a place for it though, everynow and again.

Right, off to feed my fat pregnant face

Yes, I thought you might identify with that

The Rules of the Classroom should be the Rules of the World imo
it certainly shouldn't be place of Lesser Justice

Elgar's Nimrod fires up in the background.....

"It's the pedagogical equivalent of the "Shurrup or I'll bang yer fuckin 'eads together" school of parentcraft"

Eh? What's wrong with that then?

It is a crap analogy though as the driving thing is about the criminilisation of an individual.

The teaching thing is about crowd control. Usually for the good of all. If it takes a long time to find out who the culprits are the good kids are missing out on teaching time. Its a lose/lose situation for the good kids.

However this does reflect the outside world in the following way:
We do have this stuff applied to us as children and adults outside of school in the form of all the crappy rules and regulations (indeed laws) that don't apply to us as individuals but that we are all being punished for in advance because of the minority who are antisocial/criminal/selfish, etc.

I'm sure you can all think of many examples where we all have to suffer because of the few: airport checking in searches anyone??

Being searched at an airport is not a punishment, it's a precaution for the protection and benefit of the majority. The inconvenience it engenders to the individual is a byproduct, not the sole purpose of the exercise. Totally different concept.

any left, JustJAM?

yes pann, ordered extra large box