..in thinking this isn't a fair method of discipline?

[yorkshirelass79]

Message withdrawn

Interesting viewpoint, and one that I completely disagree with.

I was just about to post that I completely see your point Booboobedoo. I think that your method promotes a way for the children to take resposibility on a group level and helps them to work together.

Well when I was at school we had the exact same reward/punishment scheme and it worked brilliantly.

Can someone please tell me how they would have solved the situation if they didn't use this method.

Must admit, that's pretty essential in drama. Agree with boo on that one.

Thanks EmmyLou.

I certainly don't encourage the other children to bully or 'grass up' the talkers. If it happens too often I just open the backstage door so that I can spot the culprits, but they need to learn to do it for themselves.

But the talkers do feel ashamed when the other children are exasperated that their rehearsal is interupted. They're all there because they love their drama, and all of them want to work really. It's just that some of them (when with their peer-group) are congenitally incapable of keeping quiet for more than two minutes.

I'm in quite a priveleged position, as I teach one small group at a time, and I supervise their break-time. No bullying here, ta.

Greensleeves, you may not agree with my methods, but I am emphatically not a lazy teacher. I'm a bloody good one as it goes, and I also happen to like and respect children. Unfortunately not something one can say of all teachers.

Interesting discussion.
I think maybe there's a difference between using this method if the sanction has immediate consequences, than if the effects are delayed. I thought the example given by the OP did sound vindictive and probably not very effective (because the badly behaved children won't care about the housepoints), but what Booboobedoo describes sounds quite reasonable IMO - perhaps it is also more likely to work because none of the kids will want the rehearsal to be over.

We'll disagree on this then Boobedo. Whether or not you are a "bloody good" teacher or not I have no idea. I would have thought that was for others to say.

However the practice being discussed on this thread is, IMO lazy and unfair and inherently wrong, and I would be annoyed if any of my child's teachers deployed it.

It's always amusing how a thread like this turns, as soon as one person posts who disagrees with the main consensus - all the dissenters melt away all of a sudden

Also, in reply to the OP, maybe it'd be an idea to let the teacher know how your DD is feeling if she's really upset.

I always value feedback from parents as long as it's constructive, as it helps you to get to know each child better.

(I'm sure yours could be constructive: I've just had my share of screaming loonies in my time: "WHY HASN'T LITTLE CELIA GOT THE LEAD?" etc. ).

Greensleeves: it's just a bit of healthy self-respect. I've seen MB refer to herself in a similar manner without anyone being snide enough to question her.

And I've had plenty say it, thanks.

I think only those who have actually taught children of that age can be in a position to make a FAIR judgment. Sometimes as a teacher you have to do things that aren't ideal. So, it might not be fair? So what? That's life, kids have to learn to deal with that sort of stuff. For heaven's sake

kitty. I knew the mother of (nearly) six kids would understand.

Yeah and I used to teach primary too [grin.] Actually skills needed in that job have stood me in very good stead over the last 8 years

So I trust when your children reach secondary age kitty, you'll be keeping your mouth firmly shut when it comes to shoddy and bad practice from their teachers?

Somehow I can't quite see that

When I was school it was the teachers that had a lack of control that penalised the whole class, the teachers that had it nailed needed only discipline the people that were misbehaving.
As has been said it was an attempt for the masses to intimidate the few into behaving.

At my ds's school, points awarded are never retracted. It is a big thing there.

As a teacher I have only very rarely punished a whole class, and that would only be keeping back for a short time. It is not something I like to do at all.

JustJAM: did this include when the children were through necessity out of the teachers sight? Even in sedentary lessons teachers have to look away sometimes, you know.

I wouldn't take away well-behaved children's points/stickers either: I think it's unfair.

I just wanted to put across a scenario where IMO/E it's a good practical device. Much better than risking punishing the wrong child.

I don't remember exactly at my children's school. They tend to get or not get them rather than having them taken away but I think they have some kind of demerit system and if you get enough of those you lose a house point and sometimes (rarely) they are applied to everyone which children know isn't fair. I just tell them life is like that. Or I suggest they be sympathetic to the teacher who might have had a row with her husband or be in a mood as we all are from time to time.

Xenia: teaching the children that teachers are human?

(Not because it's you saying it btw - just nice to hear).

Hmm. If it happened that fleetingly then is it really worth that level of punishment?

It's really important parents do. Also part of going to school is learning about the fallibility of adults, the taking the blame for things you didn't do, having a teacher you don't like and they don't like you occasionally etc. They have two teachers no one likes at the moment. I try to suggest that's good for them or to try to think of something nice to say to that teacher - you've a nice dress on today or something. My children then think I'm mad.

Depends how often it's happening BBS. I'm just hypothesising. (See my earlier posts for my own example).

It wouldn't bother me hugely, although it is unfair.

I remember being at school and some of the class playing up during a game of rounders and the whole class had to go upstairs and write out the alphabet over and over.

Especially frustrating for me and a couple of others who hadn't even played and had been delivering messages to teachers!

I agree with Xenia too about teaching the children that teachers are human and can mak mistakes.

It would be easier to promote this idea though if teachers were able to admit themselves that they make bad decisions sometimes, rather than defending to the hilt what virtually everyone else recognises as unfair and shoddy practice.