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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..in thinking this isn't a fair method of discipline?

155 replies

yorkshirelass79 · 02/03/2007 13:32

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
Boco · 02/03/2007 16:43

It's a bit lazy, and i can't imagine incredibly worthwhile as it just pisses off the good kids and makes them less inclined to try hard, and the naughty kids aren't often that bothered about merit points anyway - especially when they're all being punished equally.

What's with the argument that only people who have actually taught children of that age can really judge? Does that mean all non teachers should butt right out of their childrens education and not question anything, even if they think its crap practice? anyone with a child is qualified to judge how effective, fair, useful, damaging, rubbish, brilliant the way their child is treated. They might not be able to change it, but if its particularly rubbish they have the job of undoing and counteracting it at home.

kittywaitsfornumber6 · 02/03/2007 16:46

Ooh no Greeny, not me .
However, there has to be a certain amount of 'c'est la vie' when it comes to schooling, especially beyond primary level. As it happens I have never agreed or done the withdrawl of any reward or point given, both as a teacher and with my own kids. I believe that once it has been earned it should be kept. You can not give out more as a punishment but you should not take away what has been given.

Booboobedoo · 02/03/2007 16:49

La la Greensleeves.

'Virtually everyone else' being the 20 or people who've posted on this thread, and 'defending to the hilt' being the reasonable poins I've made with no personal attack against your stance.

I shall reiterate once more: I think I've outlined a circumstance in which the method can be reasonably used. I think taking away 'points' that the children have earned is a bit rough.

I think communication with the children is the most important thing. We have group discussions in class about group etiquette and why certain rules are a good idea. Everyone gets a chance to comment, and I encourage the children to air grievances.

kittywaitsfornumber6 · 02/03/2007 16:49

No, Bocco it doesn't. It DOES mean that you aren't in a postion of understanding when it comes to classroom dynamics and discipline. There are things that you might want to improve, think taht you can improve etc etc. but the theory and the practice are two very different beasts.

pointydog · 02/03/2007 16:54

I think, generally speaking, it is unfair practice. I don't do it in the classroom.

However, BooBoo gave one example of when the sum behaviour of teh whole group takes precedence over the behaviour of individuals. They're putting on a play, the teacher cannot be with them if she is front of stage assessing and if children choose to go to drama group I think it's A Good Thing that they learn the self-discipline of staying quiet when they have to.

kookaburra · 02/03/2007 16:55

HAven't read the whole thread (yeah, I'm lazy too...) but I think you are not unreasonable, and that this 'method' stinks.
At my DC school they have 'golden time' ie free play that they can lose as a class or individually and it incenses me when all lose because of a few recidivists. DH almost used this on our brood the other day becuase he could not determine which child was the culprit - each swore it was the otehr. i persuaded him not to do it, as the innoocent party had no control over the the other and it blatantly unfair. (Actually slight aside - it is what the government is doing to us 'good landlords' who always return deposits to tenants - making us all suffer draconian rules becasue of the baddies.)
I do tell the children that teachers are human and make mistakes - like their parents - when they are angry. If I do something unjust when I am angry I apologise and withdraw the punishment - wish teachers would do that.
BTW - I also tell them that they are bloody lucky that life is unfair, if it was fair, we would all be living in Africa and walking five miles a day to collect unsafe drinking water. That ususally shuts up the 'unfair' whine.

LaDiDaDi · 02/03/2007 17:00

I don't think it's very fair but I don't think it's a big deal if it happens very rarely. If it happens on a regular basis then it's worth questioning with the school as I certainly think that the well behaved children are likely to become demotivated.

Judy1234 · 02/03/2007 17:17

I think telling your child the school is always right is a fairly good principle, that you supoort the authority of the school for the greater good even if on that one occasion little Johnny was unfairly treated. Obviously within reason.

Soapbox · 02/03/2007 17:28

I started a thread on a similar topic earlier this week - I don't like whole class punishments, they are ineffective and unjust.

I think it is fine to have a bit of rough with the smooth in school life - afterall we all put up with that in our adult lives. However, I think it is vitally important that whatever form of behaviour management is used, children should not be held responsible for the poor behavioural choices of others.

Children do have a natural instinct for fairness and justice - I find it sad that this instinct is so easily tossed aside becase a teacher is unable to control one or two children in their class.

Greensleeves · 02/03/2007 17:29

Well put soapbox. Children do usually have a strong natural sense of justice (it can be very annoying)

itsafullmOOn · 02/03/2007 17:43

Booboobedoo, remember its a full mOOn, some people turn into werewolves,

or is it that they just can't stand being disagreed with

pointydog · 02/03/2007 17:47

awooooooOOOOOO

Greensleeves · 02/03/2007 17:51

Hello again CAM, fancy meeting you here

iCAM · 02/03/2007 17:51

Is the hair growing on the palms of your hands pointy

pointydog · 02/03/2007 17:53

oh yes

I got it bad

iCAM · 02/03/2007 17:54

I'm upset, Greeny, you didn't notice me further down the thread when I posted earlier

You're not on the ball

fruitful · 02/03/2007 17:54

To the OP - are the children in your dd's class equally divided between the 4 houses? Because if so, you might point out to your dd that taking 1 point off each child makes no difference at all to which house wins at the end of term.

[cravenly avoiding the whole debate ]

LaidbackinEngland · 02/03/2007 18:23

I think it is an 'OK' way of dealing with things ...if used very sparingly.

I can think of other examples in adult life where other people in a team might let the side down - despite the strong performance of others. Also in team sports - if the person in goal lets a goal in - the whole team have to expereince the loss .... it's a lesson in being a little bit out of control

LazyLine · 02/03/2007 18:45

I remember being at school and being subjected to the "if someone doesn't own up, the whole class will get detention" trick and it certainly didn't make anyone behave.

themildmanneredjanitor · 02/03/2007 18:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Booboobedoo · 02/03/2007 18:47

CAM - My baby's due tomorrow, so I'm hoping for a baby werewolf.

I'll be worried if he comes out all hairy.

pointydog · 02/03/2007 18:48

aw booboo! ALl the best when it happens

Booboobedoo · 02/03/2007 18:50

Ta!

'Spect I'll be on here whinging about it dragging out for a few days.

harpsichordcarrier · 02/03/2007 19:04

OK how about this for an example:
your family car is caught speeding.
the police can't tell if it was you driving, dh, or your teenage daughter
so you all get a £80 fine and 6 points on your licence
well, you know life isn't fair
nd only those who have been traffic police can comment

Greensleeves · 02/03/2007 19:06

Hallelujah. Common sense.

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