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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cheating the system

436 replies

AngryNameChanger · 26/02/2017 14:19

I have a friend, a very good friend in fact, that I want to report for benefit fraud. I feel as unhappy as anything that I feel this way, but I do, and short of cutting all contact with her I will continue to feel very annoyed towards her.
In all honesty, even if I cut all ties, I would still feel very pissed off!

She is a lone parent to 2 primary age kids but she receives a large amount each month in benefits. So much in fact that she manages to save around 500 each month and book holidays, expensive days out and never has to go without anything. It's not on credit, she's very open about it all and will happily tell everyone exactly how much she gets and what it's spent on.

Part of what makes up her huge payments every month is a disability payment for one of the dc, but they are not actually effected by their disability iyswim, and friend has mentioned a few times that she really shouldn't get this payment but when check ups happen they lay it on thickly! I don't want to elaborate more as it could be very outing along with all the other info!

The disability payment, while annoying (her child is as able in everything as other children in every way, but because of a very small thing she gets the payment) isn't the issue, if the powers that be say she is entitled then she's entitled.

I've put this in to show that she's not hard up and stuggling to make ends meet in any way.

My problem is that on top of everything, she's also earning money on the side! Quite a lot of money too, at least £100 per week. Sometimes more.

This is really pissing me off and I'm struggling to remain civil With her when she's talking about money (all the time!)

I feel very strongly that what she's doing is crossing a big line. I don't think it's based on jealousy either, even if that's what's coming across. She is my friend and I don't want to hurt her but at the same time I don't think she should be able to just carry on milking the system for every penny while also earning on the side.

I also don't want to put her in a position of struggling because I've said something, although i do feel that if she wasn't doing it then she wouldn't be in the position of getting in trouble.

In all honesty I don't think I can remain friends either way after putting all this down. It has really clarified It all for me.

So my aibu is, aibu to report her?

OP posts:
Alyosha · 27/02/2017 17:39

It's relevant morally!

If I steal money from a millionaire, it's still wrong...even if it has no negative impact on him/her.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 17:49

There are people on this thread outright defending benefit fraud - saying how can the OP begrudge her mate for earning an extra £400, which is apparently "measly".

No, the amount of money genuine claimants get is measly, I was not commenting on the OP's not friend.

user1471439240 · 27/02/2017 17:54

The benefit system has grown into a behemoth of rules, unintended consequences and perverse disincentives.
This whataboutery regarding taxing companies and bailed banks helps no one, least of all the genuine needy.
You are not sticking it to the man defending benefit fraud, you are hastening the collapse of a system, designed with good intent, broken, as ever, by natural human greed.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 17:55

And this thread isn't about taxation of large companies (although I agree it's not right and steps should be taken to tax businesses appropriately and then direct some of those taxes to benefit claimants). THis thread is about cheating the ebenfits system and that is NOT OK

FillySucker

But absolutely NOBODY on this thread thinks benefit fraud is OK!!

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 18:04

BARB / Babyroobs

Perhaps my info on tax credits is out of date, but I thought the cap beyond which you received none was £66k?

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 18:11

There is £13bn in unclaimed benefits apparently! Even if you deduct from that the £1.4bn lost to benefit fraud you're still left with an £11.6bn surplus in the budget.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/11/big-benefits-myth-tories-half-families-low-incomes-not-claiming-welfare

Libitina · 27/02/2017 18:23

OP, report her and leave it in the hands of the powers that be to investigate whether she is or isn't 'cheating the system'.

I cannot believe how low some PP's morals are on here. Shock

Babyroobs · 27/02/2017 18:25

Libitina . Me too. I am shocked by this thread.

Babyroobs · 27/02/2017 18:27

Jam. The cap for tax credits may well be that high but it would most likely be only if you had loads of kids and high childcare costs. For most people the threshold for claiming would be much much lower,and even more so now that after April there will be no additional child tax credits for more than 2 children.

barefoofdoctor · 27/02/2017 18:50

I'd report her in a heartbeat (surely she can't be that thick to gob off to all and sundry about this fraud and expect no one to object and report?). No idea why you are getting such a hard time on here OP surely the whole point of a chat forum is to ask for advice as you have done?!

ooohsopink · 27/02/2017 18:57

If this person is claiming fraudulently, then you need to report her.

She is stealing money that is meant for people who truly need state support. Reporting her means an investigation - it doesn't mean her benefits will stop immediately and if she is entitled to the claim, it will remain in place.

Ignore the people on here that are making out that you are the bad one here - you aren't. I would say though, you need to let the 'friendship' go afterwards.

Spikeyball · 27/02/2017 19:02

The op is getting a hard time because her story is full of holes.

FannyWisdom · 27/02/2017 19:07

And OP is just jealous not offended.
Typical

Cheating the system
OopsDearyMe · 27/02/2017 20:24

Too many Grey areas!

Reporting anyone for anything on hearsay, is never a good idea. You said it yourself, you only have what she said to go on. You have no facts.

You cannot prove;

What benefits she's claiming or the restrictions involved
What she's earning
Whether she's declaring the earnings
What her child's condition is and how it affects her personally

You are assuming a great deal and relying on your judgement, which comes across as sour grapes, I think you referred to yourself as a 'mug' at one point, I think you want to be seen to have high ethics but are annoyed that this means you don't get to enjoy what your 'Friend' does by not doing so.

On a side note, I wish people would give the whole, its my hard earned money your are wasting! Crap a rest. Only a small portion goes on welfare, do you all get as much up in arms about the other sources your money goes!

This is another thread that proves how self obsessed we all are now, So bothered about how others live and the choices they make, but expecting everyone else to allow you to live how you please. Its really sad. You are so concerned and full of moral outrage at the perceived behaviour of your 'friend' but let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!
Its pretty morally wrong to make assumptions that are not based on fact, to complain about someone claiming welfare when they do not need it, and yet be turning down employment to claim yourself. To state that someone's child is not disabled, without the expertise to know, to be.

Its possible that even if she is claiming fraudulently. But have you asked why? No ! You flew straight to GREED! It can be soul destroying to have no choice but struggle on welfare year after year, had it occured to you that she may just for once wanted to not struggle, it can become an overwhelming temptation to relieve the stress. Its not right, but I can understand why she might do something like that.

She might also be doing worse than appears, you would never know how bad my finances are at times, and both my disabled daughters appear to have no need for help, they don't get the disabled award from tax credits or DLA despite being registered disabled. So its unlikely that this person has succeeded in fooling that particular system.
Also you are assessed by professionals in the medical field, not some idiot. They can clearly see through a bunch of dirty clothes. Its also true that many disabled people have not received the benefits they genuinely need, they are so strict. The current advice is to ensure at assessment, you portray the her worst of your condition or face the prospect of being turned down.

If she is a friend be kindl

VestalVirgin · 27/02/2017 20:29

You know, I wonder what the world would look like if those who really steal loads and loads of money from the government by not paying their taxes were nearly so eager to report each other as people lower on the income ladder.

"My buddy from the golf club has cheated the government out of 1 million of taxes! WIBU to report him?" ... no, somehow, I cannot imagine that this would even happen.

Report her if you feel you need to, but I don't for a second believe that people like her are the reason that those in need don't get more money.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 27/02/2017 20:43

Absolutely yes to Vestal's post above

Are you sure the benefits she gets aren't benefits for people in work but on a relatively low income? I get the childcare element of the working tax credits benefits (quite legally and legitimately - and there's nothing in your post to suggest that your "friend" - who I sincerely hope finds better friends soon - is in any different a situation).

So, what's better for the country as a whole? I get some of my tax back towards my childcare costs and continue to work, or am unable to work and 100% dependent on benefits?

BishopBrennansArse · 27/02/2017 22:23

Ooh now let's see.

For the THIRD time if you are claiming carers allowance because your child gets DLA you are permitted to work and earn up to £110 a week as well as having the kids' DLA and a disability premium in tax credits. You would also be eligible for housing benefit.

The only way the friend in the OP would be doing anything fraudulent would be if they were also claiming income support. We don't know if that is the case.

But no.... let's just blart out daily mail esque anecdotes rather than the facts being presented.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 22:36

but I don't for a second believe that people like her are the reason that those in need don't get more money.

^ YES.

"My buddy from the golf club has cheated the government out of 1 million of taxes! WIBU to report him?" ... no, somehow, I cannot imagine that this would even happen.

But they can't be reported because in the eyes of the law (not morally!!) they have done nothing wrong. They're rich enough to be able to plan legal tax avoidance measures. It's actually something the govt are trying hard to crack down on ATM though.

ellamoromou · 27/02/2017 22:41

These threads leave me perplexed tbh - cheating benefits is wrong - how anyone can disagree with that fact is beyond me. It's nothing to do with whether large companies cheat the system, 'she has 20 disabled children so give her some slack' etc. It's straight forward getting what you aren't entitled to. Yes I'd report, and have, and will if I suspect someone on benefits is receiving them unfairly. You see the same old poster on threads like this ridiculing posters who would report - madness really as genuine recipients I would hope would receive more if we could wipe out the shysters

BishopBrennansArse · 27/02/2017 22:51

Ella have you read any facts here, you know, like how carers are allowed to earn £110 a week? Or have you just decided to believe the propagandist bullshit anecdotes?

FillySucker · 27/02/2017 23:04

Bullshit anecdotes? How do you KNOW they are bullshit? That is just your opinion, which of course you are entitled to, as is every other poster.

BishopBrennansArse · 27/02/2017 23:06

Where is the data?
Counter argument has links and data not my best friend's budgie's granny's babysitter's cat's kitten's gerbil knows....

38cody · 27/02/2017 23:14

I KNOW of two people get 'Disability allowance' for kids who's 'disability' doesn't affect their lives or cost more to keep them.
Apparently there are going to be some changes to it and they are FURIOUS.
It's a benefit thats easy to get fraudulently esp with a private diagnosis and it is widely abused - taking money from those who genuinely need it - It pisses me off big time and I can see where youre coming from but personally i woudn't report.

Dawndonnaagain · 27/02/2017 23:34

How do you know 38Cody are you with them 24 hours a day?
It is not easy to get fraudulently, the forms are horrific and the evidence required really quite detailed. Apart from which, if you can afford to pay for a private assessment, it seems somewhat unlikely that you're skint enough to be wanting to fiddle DLA.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 23:37

cheating benefits is wrong - how anyone can disagree with that fact is beyond me.

Ella RTFT! Nobody has said they think benefit fraud is OK.

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