Cheating the system

[AngryNameChanger]

I have a friend, a very good friend in fact, that I want to report for benefit fraud. I feel as unhappy as anything that I feel this way, but I do, and short of cutting all contact with her I will continue to feel very annoyed towards her.
In all honesty, even if I cut all ties, I would still feel very pissed off!

She is a lone parent to 2 primary age kids but she receives a large amount each month in benefits. So much in fact that she manages to save around 500 each month and book holidays, expensive days out and never has to go without anything. It's not on credit, she's very open about it all and will happily tell everyone exactly how much she gets and what it's spent on.

Part of what makes up her huge payments every month is a disability payment for one of the dc, but they are not actually effected by their disability iyswim, and friend has mentioned a few times that she really shouldn't get this payment but when check ups happen they lay it on thickly! I don't want to elaborate more as it could be very outing along with all the other info!

The disability payment, while annoying (her child is as able in everything as other children in every way, but because of a very small thing she gets the payment) isn't the issue, if the powers that be say she is entitled then she's entitled.

I've put this in to show that she's not hard up and stuggling to make ends meet in any way.

My problem is that on top of everything, she's also earning money on the side! Quite a lot of money too, at least £100 per week. Sometimes more.

This is really pissing me off and I'm struggling to remain civil With her when she's talking about money (all the time!)

I feel very strongly that what she's doing is crossing a big line. I don't think it's based on jealousy either, even if that's what's coming across. She is my friend and I don't want to hurt her but at the same time I don't think she should be able to just carry on milking the system for every penny while also earning on the side.

I also don't want to put her in a position of struggling because I've said something, although i do feel that if she wasn't doing it then she wouldn't be in the position of getting in trouble.

In all honesty I don't think I can remain friends either way after putting all this down. It has really clarified It all for me.

So my aibu is, aibu to report her?

myoriginal3

Will the wino payment cover a decent bottle or two of Chablis each week?

On ESA you can earn up to £115 per week, working 16 hours or less for 52 weeks per year. To qualify for ESA, your friend will have had to go through rigorous assessment, and will not have just decided for herself that she can just have it! You need reports, letters, diagnoses, and to be examined by a medical professional. As for the child's disability benefits, you CANNOT get the disabled child premium of tax credits WITHOUT being first in receipt of DLA. It is extremely unlikely that she got DLA for her child just by bullshitting. Again they want tonnes of evidence from many and varied professionals that have examined the child, they certainly don't just take a parent's word for it. Even if she declared to the DWP that she was working, she would still be entitled to benefits, so what's the point really in reporting her when you aren't really sure of the exact circumstances. If she makes, let's say the £115 a week, she'd be under the threshold for paying tax, still get ESA, still get DLA as it's not means tested, still get HB, STILL get tax credits and might even get working tax credits. If you think she's a show off and a twat, stop being friends, by all means, but reporting her for something you don't know if she's actually doing is just sounding a bit petty to me.

You lost me on the very first line with 'very good friend' and 'should I report'. No! Not if she is genuinely a good friend. Why would you want a good friend to suffer those consequences, regardless of whether she is technically doing something wrong or not? One of my best friends is a regular shoplifter (severely bulimic, drug addicted kleptomaniac). I wouldn't dream of making her life even harder by reporting her. Several other close friends are heavy drug users. Again, their lives are really hard. I'm not going to report them. I would struggle to report my close friends and family for anything, even murder. Though I would hope that in the case of those serious crimes I would be able to do it.

I only know two benefits claimants well enough to know much about their set up and how it works. As it happens, they both fit into categories that would probably be judged as 'scroungers' on mn and they both have plenty of money.

One is a single parent of 8 children. 6 of those children have disabilities and she is their carer. I don't think the benefits cap applies to disability benefits so I assume she gets a huge amount of money. But with 8 kids you'd need it! So yes, lots of money - but am I jealous of someone spending their life exclusively and almost singlehandedly (her ex does a lot to be fair) caring for 6 disabled kids (5 of whom have hugely challenging behaviour) plus 2 other kids. Hell no!

The other is the friend mentioned upthread who shoplifts. She recently had to go through the PIP assessment and was terrified of losing it. And yes, even though she certainly can't work, she was advised to look 'unkempt' at her interview, to take someone with her so it looked like she couldn't manage alone and told that if she did 'feel able to stage a faint, a panic attack or wet yourself it wouldn't be a bad idea'! And that's someone who's genuine! She's a bulimic with a BMI of about 12, she's a type 1 diabetic, has depression and anxiety and she has serious problems with her feet, liver, kidneys and eyes as a result of insulin omission and permanently erratic blood sugars. So yes, she gets more than enough money to afford to be at home on her own 95% of the time and spend £100s a month on food to eat and throw up. Someone to envy?!?

If there's one thing I've got faith in our government over, it's making sure that people who don't qualify for benefits don't get them!

I'm sure there are a few who manage it. But the chances of knowing one are very small. And the chances of knowing many non existent, I would have thought.

Bloody hell, call yourself a friend?

Dla/pip ARE difficult to claim and be awarded, HOWEVER as a fraud officer I am afraid to tell you that Fraud within both benefits is rife. Especially child DLA.
If she gets any income support components, (which she would as a carer for a child regarded as disabled) then £20 is the maximum she could earn before £1 for £1 deductions.

It is the same as someone stealing directly from you. It's your and my taxes. Which should be used for those who need it. This type of behaviour reduces the pot and makes government restrict help just as they are currently doing for widowed parents allowance.

YANBU

The dwp's own figures do not show that fraud is rife.

Oh, and it doesn't reduce the pot, that's a myth. They are reducing widowed parents allowance as a political move. There is far more around in unclaimed benefits than there is fraud. You're talking absolute tosh.

I second manicinsomniac and DawnDonna.

And please stop thinking you're a friend to this person who's life you wish to make harder. Don't be duplicitous.

being duplicitous in friendship is in my books a much more severe moral crime than getting some benefits. Anyway I'm pretty certain your friend is not breaking the law in any way. As manicinsomniac said, at least that's one thing we can trust the government to do, to not give any 'unnecessary' benefits, what with the reports of how many people have died etc since benefit cuts.

Really pisses me off the hours I have to work and pay for nursery without getting a penny from the state, but some people get everything paid for and have so much free cash.

So in other words you're jealous of anyone you perceive to be getting a free handout and blame them because you don't have more money?

Well, that's a bit silly isn't it!!? It would be far more logical to be angry at the government for not giving you more tax breaks or to be angry at Amazon for not paying their taxes!! Not at someone on disability benefit for getting an extra pittance that they may / may not be entitled to.

• Total benefit fraud losses £1.3 - £1.6bn
• Tax evasion & avoidance losses £34bn - £120bn
• "Banks Bailout" £500bn

Source: www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/62461/benefit-fraud-v-tax-evasion-which-costs-more

Ps. When you say you "don't get a penny from the state" does that mean you're over the tax credits £66k threshold? If you are then I can't see you have that much to complain about!!

It is the same as someone stealing directly from you. It's your and my taxes. Which should be used for those who need it. This type of behaviour reduces the pot and makes government restrict help just as they are currently doing for widowed parents allowance.

What bollocks. See my post below.

I know a few people who are wrongly claiming benefits. They are my friends and it isn't my place to report them. I tell them it's wrong but I'm more worried about why they are doing it.

With my friends they are doing it to help their DC get ahead. I am made of different stuff and work my arse off. In reality I'd probably be better off doing what they do. I just can't live like that. The guilt would kill me.

Gosh, with friends like you, who needs enemies?!

You sound awful, bitter and definitely not someone I would class as a friend.

Sometimes friends do things you don't agree with, everyone is different and has different moral codes! But would I purposefully dog someone in and get them into trouble? Of course not!

You need to take a look in the mirror before judging your friend!

Maralynsbigsister you're a fraud officer. Care to say more about why you think fraud in child DLA is rife?

What do people claim for that they shouldn't be?

My son is autistic so I am keen to know just what people put on these forms that mean DLA is awarded if they have no medical proof. I have to send in all manner of medical proof when I renew my claim. Letters from the consultant, assessments from the speech and language therapist and occupational therapist.. I also have to name someone who knows my child independently (I usually ask someone from school) who can give information independently of me.

My experience is that it would be very difficult to fraudulently claim (although not impossible). And if fraud really IS rife then why is that not showing on the DWPs figures....presumably as a fraud officer your figures feed into that?

Or is your experience in work skewing your perception? So you think it's rife when in fact it isn't.....and if all you deal with IS fraud then that would be understandable.

I'm with OP as well. I have unfortunately met plenty of people who are constantly cheating the system, never worked 1 hr in their whole lives but they live so much better than someone who works 40 hrs/week and still struggle to make ends meet. This is awful & grabby + she seems to be bragging constantly about it. Report the hell out of her and remove her from your life.

If you have kids. By the sound of your post I'm taking it you would be perfectly happy for one of them to be disabled as long as you get a few extra £ per week? FFS

Sofia my son will never be able to work. Just how bad do you think his standard of living should be?

Marilyn'sbigsister - great to hear from someone who actually works in benefit fraud, whose comments clearly trump other people on here who are trying to trivialise fraud. I myself have reported my BIL who lives with my MIL as her carer, but spends weeks at a time in a alcoholic den instead of looking after the person he is paid to do. I did this for the simple fact I work full time, and have to 'fill in' when he goes on his benders, by going to Mils to care for her before and after work. Unfortunately nothing has been done, presumably due to there being so many fraud reports that they struggle to cope.

Is your Mil fraudulently claiming dla or pip because that is what Marilyn was talking about?

No. But linking to the fact that there is fraud accross all benefits. And it isn't the MIL who is claiming fraudulently. The BIL is receiving the carers allowance and fills in the forms. Mil is 88 yrs old and is in the early stages of dementia. I'm not for a second saying she is not entitled to help, but BIL is taking the p**s.

she was advised to look 'unkempt' at her interview, to take someone with her so it looked like she couldn't manage alone and told that if she did 'feel able to stage a faint, a panic attack or wet yourself it wouldn't be a bad idea'!

Well that's reassuring for genuine people who have lost their PIP claim.

It's bollocks too. I didn't go 'unkempt' to my ESA assessment and didnt lose it entirely. Went on my own too. Mainly because they'd cancelled on me 4 times already and they knew jolly well my kids didn't start school until 9am. My friend that usually comes with me couldn't do 9am as she does the school run as her partner works mornings. Guess what time they gave me? Yep. 9am. I didn't lose mine entirely.

This type of behaviour reduces the pot and makes government restrict help just as they are currently doing for widowed parents allowance.

Nonsense. The benefit cap is the reason for the reduced pot. Not someone on the fiddle. If the dwp were that bothered about people being on the fiddle then that's half the 'single parents' on my road buggered to begin with.

Told to look unkempt? I'm not surprised - dare to turn up to your assessment having made half an effort with your appearance and you'll be marked down because you have the mental and physical abilities to wash your hair, choose nice clothes, have a bath.

The problem here is everyone is so worried someone else is getting something they are not.

Give up work. Apply for benefits then come back here and tell us how rosey it is.

I agree with you OP. It's annoying when you're an honest member of society and someone is being grabby and dishonest. It just makes you wonder why you bother. I see it as setting an example to my children and having a clear conscience.

A lot of very hardworking families would love to have £500 a month to save, aside from the fact her savings should be affecting her benefits above a certain level.

It's not jealousy, it's a feeling of injustice and immorality.