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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cheating the system

436 replies

AngryNameChanger · 26/02/2017 14:19

I have a friend, a very good friend in fact, that I want to report for benefit fraud. I feel as unhappy as anything that I feel this way, but I do, and short of cutting all contact with her I will continue to feel very annoyed towards her.
In all honesty, even if I cut all ties, I would still feel very pissed off!

She is a lone parent to 2 primary age kids but she receives a large amount each month in benefits. So much in fact that she manages to save around 500 each month and book holidays, expensive days out and never has to go without anything. It's not on credit, she's very open about it all and will happily tell everyone exactly how much she gets and what it's spent on.

Part of what makes up her huge payments every month is a disability payment for one of the dc, but they are not actually effected by their disability iyswim, and friend has mentioned a few times that she really shouldn't get this payment but when check ups happen they lay it on thickly! I don't want to elaborate more as it could be very outing along with all the other info!

The disability payment, while annoying (her child is as able in everything as other children in every way, but because of a very small thing she gets the payment) isn't the issue, if the powers that be say she is entitled then she's entitled.

I've put this in to show that she's not hard up and stuggling to make ends meet in any way.

My problem is that on top of everything, she's also earning money on the side! Quite a lot of money too, at least £100 per week. Sometimes more.

This is really pissing me off and I'm struggling to remain civil With her when she's talking about money (all the time!)

I feel very strongly that what she's doing is crossing a big line. I don't think it's based on jealousy either, even if that's what's coming across. She is my friend and I don't want to hurt her but at the same time I don't think she should be able to just carry on milking the system for every penny while also earning on the side.

I also don't want to put her in a position of struggling because I've said something, although i do feel that if she wasn't doing it then she wouldn't be in the position of getting in trouble.

In all honesty I don't think I can remain friends either way after putting all this down. It has really clarified It all for me.

So my aibu is, aibu to report her?

OP posts:
FillySucker · 27/02/2017 15:39

So, children suffer due to their parent/guardian illegal actions and it is the fault of whoever reports them? How about putting the blame where it lies - with the person comitting benefit fraud?

Too many today have a huge self entitled attitude, and are always ready to blame someone else. And as for the As long as the children are well cared for, and benefit from this, too, I don't see the big deal with her having perhaps 100 more a month than she "should". comment by VestalVirgin - what bollocks! Try saying that to a parent who works their backside off to feed and clothe their children with an income LEGALLY earned that doesn't come close to an income some people manage to get from the state.

Oh and while I'm saying what I think - If I hear the phrase "when I get paid" from my undeserving fraudulently claiming relative one more fucking time I think I might scream - you get paid when you go to work, not when you get your benefits!

NB:- I'm not a benefit basher, I believe wholeheartedly in supporting those in need, the elderly, the sick, the disabled - anyone who cannot help themselves. I also believe there would be a lot more cash available to help those who NEED it if those who just WANTED it didn't get away with FRAUD.

PortiaCastis · 27/02/2017 15:40

Just try and get any benefits at all and find out how difficult it is

Babyroobs · 27/02/2017 15:55

Which benefits are you talking about Portia. Most are pretty straightforward to claim for if you meet the criteria ( tax credits, jsa, esa, maternity benefits ). Disability benefits are getting increasingly harder to get unfortunately and I am seeing this every day in my line of work. I think the changes to mortgage interest support are outrageous and changes to bereavement benefits are upsetting too. I deal with a few bereaved families and it will hit people hard compared to what they could previously claim..

BARB060609 · 27/02/2017 16:00

JamDonutsRule no, I am not jealous nor do I blame them, I think you are the silly one for totally misreading my post. As I said it pisses me off that I have to work hard for things people just get for free. If anyone is to blame it is the government.

Also I certainly did not say I was angry with disabled people, I didn't mention them at all! Are you getting confused???

BARB060609 · 27/02/2017 16:05

Regarding the salary last time I checked it was 45k for tax credits so thanks for bringing that to my attention I will have to look into that again. I did not complain about my salary either!!! 😂

Babyroobs · 27/02/2017 16:11

BARB- You would only get tax credits on a salary of £45k if you had loads f kids or high childcare costs. From April there will be no additional tax credits for a third child born after April 2017.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 16:27

I also believe there would be a lot more cash available to help those who NEED it if those who just WANTED it didn't get away with FRAUD.

FillySucker
The cash is already available Filly! Fraud only costs the economy £1.4bn a year. The government gave the banks £500bn! Are you really naive enough to think the government is not giving more help to those who need it just because it can't afford to because of £1.4bn fraud!!? No, the govt could easily find an extra £1.4bn if it deemed it a priority, but it doesn't.

Perhaps you'd be better off spending your time being cross at large companies who avoid far far more in taxes than the £1.4bn a year lost to fraud.

User
As I said it pisses me off that I have to work hard for things people just get for free.

Well, personally I don't begrudge someone on benefits the few measly "free" scraps they get at all.

If anyone is to blame it is the government.

I mostly agree with you on this.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 27/02/2017 16:43

Eh? If ESA was 'pretty straightforward' to get. The Appeal Tribunals wouldn't be backed up would they? Confused

Dawndonnaagain · 27/02/2017 16:45

I also believe there would be a lot more cash available to help those who NEED it if those who just WANTED it didn't get away with FRAUD.
This is a nonsense. There will be no more money available, they won't increase the money we get because people stop defrauding. There is more money left in unclaimed benefits than goes out on fraud, they don't dish that out to the rest of us.

BARB060609 · 27/02/2017 16:46

Thought so Babyroobs, just that another poster said if you earn under 66k you are entitled to them!

Alyosha · 27/02/2017 16:47

I think YANBU.

But a lot of people on this thread seem to have much more sympathy for those on benefits than those working their bums off not to be on benefits.

Benefits will never be fully supported if people don't feel they are fairly administered.

The cost of benefit fraud may be low financially but morally it wears away at the fibre of the welfare state and erodes public support.

Another point is that Mumsnet is very middle class (including me...). Many people have never met someone who fiddles their benefits (but they have met tradespeople who demand cash in hand - similar issue), so they just don't believe it happens.

Alfieisnoisy · 27/02/2017 16:48

Aww user and everyone else who are upset at people on benefits.

Give up your jobs and claim benefits. You will quickly discover life is not as rosy as you think it is. It certainly isn't here....and I get extra benefits because my son is disabled. It is a huge struggle to manage and I only cope because my ex and my ex in laws are not arseholes and will do stuff like buy shoes for DS and a coat when needed.

Nobody knows what the details of my finances are except that I claim benefits. For all I know they could be like some of you here...muttering about DS having a new coat each year when their child has a second hand one. All with no idea that I didn't buy the coat....and nor did I pay for the recent weekend away I had..that was a gift from my Mum in law for my birthday. But yeah...I am on benefits AND I had a weekend away that they couldn't afford.

Try winding your necks in a bit and remembering that the vast majority of people on benefits are probably working part time (and above board) or they have additional support you know bugger all about.

Alfieisnoisy · 27/02/2017 16:52

Yes -Aloysha- and most people don't turn down the "cash in hand" offers because it means they get the work done cheaper. I don't hear people whining then.

Nobody is saying that there are not people out there who fiddle benefits, of course they are but it's nowhere near as widespread as the Daily Mail would have you believe. Nor are you experts on benefit fraud because you think you know what your neighbours are doing...when the reality is you don't.

FillySucker · 27/02/2017 16:53

It's not just about the money though is it JamDonutsRule? It's about the mentality of thinking fraud is OK, and/or a life lived on benefits through choice is acceptable.

And this thread isn't about taxation of large companies (although I agree it's not right and steps should be taken to tax businesses appropriately and then direct some of those taxes to benefit claimants). THis thread is about cheating the ebenfits system and that is NOT OK

Alyosha · 27/02/2017 16:56

Alfie - well they should turn down cash in hand! I do. If you ever get investigated by HMRC you would be in for it - and rightly so!

There are people on this thread outright defending benefit fraud - saying how can the OP begrudge her mate for earning an extra £400, which is apparently "measly".

FillySucker · 27/02/2017 16:57

Aloysha excellent post

Alyosha · 27/02/2017 16:59

You can think benefits should be better than they are now (I do).

But that will never happen while people defend benefit fraud.

I think a lot of relatively wealthy left wing people don't care all that much about benefit fraud, they think it's no big deal.

They're right that it's not a big deal financially.

But to someone who plays by the rules and as a result is really struggling, it's a huge deal that someone is breaking the law and getting away with it.

baconsandwiches · 27/02/2017 16:59

I'm a bit confused - she earns £100 a week? How would that be enough to live on? Or is this something a little extra on top of a more regular salary? If that's all she earns she would be well below the income tax threshold and not be paying tax on that even if she did declare it.

FillySucker · 27/02/2017 17:02

Dawndonnaagain So it makes it OK to defraud the taxpayer then because you don't believe any money saved by stopping fraud would be passed on to claimants?

And let's remember it IS the taxpayer that is being defrauded, not the Government. The Government don't actually have any money, it is taxes paid by those who work that fund benefits. Aloysha is correct when she saays that, Benefits will never be fully supported if people don't feel they are fairly administered

Babyroobs · 27/02/2017 17:02

Bacon - presumably she is claiming benefits as if she has no income yet earning £100 a week on the side.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 27/02/2017 17:05

Aloysha precisely. It's a huge deal to me. (Also a lefty but moving more central as time goes on) I'm currently on hold to my landlord for the umpteenth time today as my rent has been stopped because my ESA has been changed. (Hence the mumsnetting).

Serves me right for for playing by the rules. I need to get myself a cash in hand job too Wink

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 17:26

Dawndonnaagain So it makes it OK to defraud the taxpayer then because you don't believe any money saved by stopping fraud would be passed on to claimants?

FillySucker
No, it's not at all OK to commit fraud, but it's correct to say that if fraud was eradicated no money would necessarily be passed on to other genuine claimants...

..think of it as "one big money pot" rather than a benefits pot, an NHS pot, an income tax pot etc.

Alyosha · 27/02/2017 17:29

JamDonuts, but hopefully you can still agree that benefit fraud is illegal and wrong?

Even if eliminating it didn't add any money to the system, it would still be the right thing to do.

JamDonutsRule · 27/02/2017 17:30

They're right that it's not a big deal financially.

But to someone who plays by the rules and as a result is really struggling, it's a huge deal that someone is breaking the law and getting away with it.

So as it's not particularly relevant financially It's only relevant how?? From a personal perspective because it's easy to blame these people for the state of the economy?

FillySucker · 27/02/2017 17:38

Oh come on - I don't think anyone on here has said benefit claimants (even fraudulent ones) are responsible for the state of the economy JamDonutsRule