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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
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FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 26/02/2017 11:27

Buffy the new trans agenda allows anyone to identify as a woman whenever they wish.

People will use this for ulterior motives.

There were no threads about trans women using female facilities 2 or 3 years ago. The change has been the definition of what a trans woman is. The whole system is now set up for abuse.

If it was still as it was a few years ago there would be no problem. Times have changed now.

cuirderussie · 26/02/2017 11:27

I suggest you look at some transactivist sites if you're looking for examples of hate, except it's directed at women. Ever wondered why, if transwomen need protection from male violence according to them, why they never take on men and prefer to bully and abuse women?

pandarific · 26/02/2017 11:27

100% agree OP. Peace and love people. Peace and love.

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 11:27

Buffy - "Trans women should be allowed access to women's spaces because they are women"

What is a woman?

GinAndTunic · 26/02/2017 11:28

Another passive-aggressive TAAT. Gotta love the professionally offended brigade.

DoIDareDisturbTheUniverse · 26/02/2017 11:28

Bluntness and that's exactly how many of us feel when faced with criticism and vitriol from the trans community and the 'feminists' doing their donkey work. As if it's not vehemence for people to be selling badges on etsy actively encouraging violence towards women solely for being gender critical. But hey as long as the men are ok and get to put on a dress and tell us 'cisgenders' to shut up when we encounter any issues with the idea of things like blatantly trying to overwrite scientific consensus ('biological sex is a social construct', anyone?) Hmm

Fairenuff · 26/02/2017 11:29

Maybe I've missed it somewhere but I've yet to see anyone who 'identifies as female' answer the much asked question - what is their understanding of 'female'?

DoIDareDisturbTheUniverse · 26/02/2017 11:29

Beyond generally defined as someone who is born with a vagina and uterus. And yes I know intersex people exist but that's a medical condition and a rarity.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 11:31

Sacha MNHQ have said that they are allowing those threads to remain as there are very few public platforms where such issues can be aired without being shut down. This is their choice, they monitor it, have agreed boundaries for it.

Amber you may have missed some points There seems to be an assumption that someone who was born biologically male, who identifies more as a woman is just doing it to get their hands on our rights/children etc. You could read it like that, but the issues are usually about the fear of men moving into women's spaces and then attacking them... usually with documented cases.

I found the Guides thread to be offensive I bowed out of that one, it wasn't nice.

The athletics threads were transphobic too. How? As a sports scientist I know that a child raised as male, in a male body, will have any number of physical, physiological and psychological advantages over a child raised as female in a female body. Changing the nomenclature in later life does not remove those advantages.

Issues arise when physiology and sociology meet and physiology loses!

There seems to be no tolerance on mn for any male to female transsexual. Yes, to those who are actively trying to undermine, remove, traduce the idea that being female is a biological truth!

I haven't noticed the same level of vitriol for female to male transsexuals... Because they aren't trying to overturn masculinity; this is a forum full of women, maybe a make forum will have similar issues that we, as women, don't quite understand as we don't have a shared history!

Ifitquackslikeaduck · 26/02/2017 11:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 11:32

Shocking isn't it? A group of people who seem to pride themselves on being otherwise tolerant and mature, seem to turn into a mob when discussing people with what seem to be a range of quite debilitating MH issues. Horrible.

Original poster
ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:32

AllTheLight as a powerlifter myself, this is something I have thought about a lot, and it's one of the issues where I do not know where I stand.

A MTW would have a distinct advantage over a cis woman; a WTM would possibly be at a disadvantage even accounting for testosterone supplementation.

It creates new issues for the various federations and governing bodies, but as a competitor I am not sure what I would like to see happen

OP posts:
booklooker · 26/02/2017 11:33

I just checked on the fem chat link.

All of the top 5 threads are about trans.

Negative or positive, MN has got a bee in its bonnet about this

HobblingHelen · 26/02/2017 11:33

OP - I was once like you and horrified by all the transphobia on Mumsnet. (I won't go into detail as I've just written about this at length in the other current trans thread in AIBU.) Initially, I just reacted by thinking any dissenting voice was 'transphobic' and bigoted and dismissing it out of hand - but then I actually read and really thought about some the comments and articles and have changed my mind. This is a massive issue for women's rights (in a lot of different ways - not only the changing room issue) and really worrying. It's sad that Mumsnet seems to be the only place that women can have these conversations.

Lweji · 26/02/2017 11:35

eg, the belief that all MTT's hate their male genitalia and can't wait to get rid of it.

What can be seen is that some men reject the male stereotypes and seem to prefer presenting themselves as female stereotypes (mind you, that many women don't follow). Is that "feeling like a female"? Because, then I don't.

And I have changed my opinion on this. Although I still don't care how people dress or what they call themselves.
I just don't get what it means to feel like a woman or a man.

cardibach · 26/02/2017 11:35

I hav a friend who has recently disclosed as transgender (MTF). I asked her what she meant by 'feel like a woman' (supportively, don't run away with the idea it was critical, we were having a discussion, as friends do, between helping her select a wig and deciding on the thorny question of gin or wine) and she couldn't articulate it. She says she just 'feels happier' when dressed as a woman. I was able, in the context of our friendship, to point out that I'm more comfortable 'dressed as a man' in those terms (I never where skirts or dresse, have short hair, where flat shoes etc) but she didn't have any answer for that. I really don't know what the whole thing means. I think the answer has to be for everyone to dress as they like, so Fred can turn up to work in a dress in the same way Mabel can wear trousers. Why do we need to gender that stuff?

cardibach · 26/02/2017 11:35

Wear nor where. Twice. FFS.

PlectrumElectrum · 26/02/2017 11:36

I really wish posters who yell 'transphobic' would actually define 'transphobia' - MN won't give us their definition either. OP, what is your understanding of what transphobia is, and can you give actual examples from threads of the transphobia that inspired this thread? Because otherwise this just the same old same old circular nonsense without any specifics.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 11:36

So basically you're saying that women are not allowed to have opinions on issues that are directly relevant to them because you think they are unfair to another group? So women: shut up, basically. Your opinions are not wanted.

Try going to a trans forum and tell them they aren't allowed have negative opinions about women. Because they do, A LOT.

Bet thats different though, isn't it?

PlayOnWurtz · 26/02/2017 11:36

Can we stop using cis. It's highly offensive to me and many other women.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 11:36

That might be the most important thing of all Hobbling

BeyondUnderthinking · 26/02/2017 11:37

I read this earlier today, it's a good link about what "gender" clothes were historically
fairplayforwomen.com/masculine-man-feminine-clothes-gender

rookiemere · 26/02/2017 11:37

I'm very grateful for mumsnet for bringing the feminist issues around transgender politics to my attention.

I had felt vaguely disquieted about the disproportionate attention it seems to be getting at my workplace intranet and now armed with more information I made sure I attended my DS's evening discussion about what they would be covering in sex education classes to make sure it was all age appropriate. Thankfully it was.

I have zero issue with someone transforming either way provided they:
a) don't erode my female only spaces and force me to refer to myself as a CIS woman - no thanks I'm just a woman

b) don't encourage children to make massive decisions during puberty and end up taking drugs and get operations which will impact them for the whole of their life
and
c) don't encourage gender stereotypes which I thought we had made some progress in eroding.

Owlzes · 26/02/2017 11:38

I think YANBU. It took me a while to register that there were some lovely corners of MN - the MH boards are very supportive - but for ages the impression I had of this place was it that was here for a flame war but not a lot else, because there are some very very aggressive and quite nasty posters who want to say that if you're assigned male at birth, you'll always be a man in a frock, no matter what, and aren't really happy with any level of acceptance for trans women beyond 'we shouldn't actually throw rocks at them'.

I've seen multiple posts which take on board the most insane urban myths or straw men arguments or blatant troll posts - I saw the entire feminist board up in arms about an alleged 'trans activist' tumblr which was blatantly not real. And yes, that got deleted, but when you see the same thing over and over again, it does kind of wear. And they dress it up in concern for vulnerable women but I just don't think I believe that is true for a lot of these posters.

FourToTheFloor · 26/02/2017 11:38

I'll just fix the sentence for you OP

A MT W F would have a distinct advantage over a cis woman;

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