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Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BevGoldbergsSister · 26/02/2017 12:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

treaclesoda · 26/02/2017 12:04

I've never seen a single transphobic post on mumsnet and I spend a lot of time reading the feminist boards.

What I have seen is a lot of posts questioning why trans rights are more important than women's rights, women's safety, women's mental well-being. And I agree with them.

I wish no harm to trans people, I don't hate them or fear them. But I don't accept that they have a right to trample all over my rights.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 12:04

Plectrum because, I think, some posters would use any definition to leap on posters who disagree, shouting TRANSPHOBIC and trying to get them deleted. This would be stifling debate.

Surely most people who want to discuss transgender issues would benefit from knowing the terms of transphobia to avoid deletion so debate can flow? Yes, if there had already been an agreed consensus on the issue. But there hasn't been, that's why the debate runs on... what is transphobia?

Lweji · 26/02/2017 12:05

it's the tone of some posters that I find shocking

How many? What percentage?
People here offend each other over toilet roll, FGS. Grin

PlayOnWurtz · 26/02/2017 12:05

Cis is offensive because It is a label that has been forced upon me. I am a woman. End of.

PageStillNotFound404 · 26/02/2017 12:05

lifeissweet, Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g and picklemepopcorn* have between them summed up my feelings on this.

I am not transphobic. I am not "cis". But I am a woman, and I will not be silenced - yet again - by a small group of men who think that they are entitled to take what we have while denying it to us.

formerbabe · 26/02/2017 12:05

MN poster - OMG! THAT IS SO OFFENSIVE! CIS IS BAD! WE MUST BE CALLED WOMEN, ONLY WOMEN, NO ONE ELSE CAN BE A WOMAN

Only women can be women...Well yes.

HelgaHufflepuff76 · 26/02/2017 12:05

I've followed this debate now for a couple of years and I still feel massively confused by it all. I am a feminist and quite an old school one, so I find all the TERF/SWERF stuff baffling. So much or it goes against what I have learnt from feminism and from my personal experience.

I believe that the only thing that makes me a woman is my biology and how other people perceive and treat me. I'm disgusted by the sex trade, not the sex workers themselves but the punters and the people who make money from vulnerable people, mostly women and girls.

All of this I believe makes me a TERF and a SWERF, which apparently makes me a bigot. This is uncomfortable for me because a bigot is not what I want to be and I have spent my life trying to be the opposite of that. I am normally always on the side of the marginalised and Usually am not conflicted about which side this is, but in this debate I am so, so conflicted.

My approach so far has been to step back and listen to as many different opinions on the subject as I can and to learn.

DonkeyOaty · 26/02/2017 12:06

We ordinarily think of "women" - who are swiftly becoming "non-men" which is of concern.

On an individual level I am sympathetic and kind to trans people but at legal levels, not so much. A dichotomy isn't it. Doublethink, YES.

Anothermoomin · 26/02/2017 12:07

And the OP's point is made......

"The amount of trans groupies there are" - an insult

OP please don't use the word cis if you can think of an alternative - it is offensive to many - telling someone what to do

Then you're not reading the posts properly - an insult?

Throwing insults like 'cis' at us and 'transphobic' are not a reasoned discussion - an insult

It's misogynistic to insist that these are shared with people with penises - definitely an insult

Anyone who comes on MN and attempts a discussion on trans issues is very quickly told what they can and can't say and how they should say it and what they should think. There are few outright insults but it is very close.

"Show me the transphobic threads" is the cry. The transphobia is in the tone and inference.

No I will not respond. No I am not going to spend all day quoting people to prove a point. Yes you will insult me, but you know what that happens anyway.

CoteDAzur · 26/02/2017 12:08

Buffy - "Trans women should be allowed access to women's spaces because they are women"

Transwomen are not women, because they are not female, both according to dictionary definitions below:

Woman = Adult human female

Female = Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

"Your gender identity is not more valid because you happen to have been born with female sex organs."

You sound confused. Female and male are sex, not "gender identity".

Humans are a sexually dimorphic species, like most mammals, and the vast majority (except for a few unfortunate ones with disorders) are clearly one or the other. This is genetically engraved into every cell in your body and is obvious in your pelvis, sexual organs, and genitals. It has nothing at all to do with nebulous neo-liberal ideas of "gender identity" where (let's hold hands here and sway...) weee are what weee want tooo beeee tra la la...

PlayOnWurtz · 26/02/2017 12:08

So let me get this straight. The trans movement can ascribe unwanted labels but women can't?

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 12:09

Lweji You are right. I should have included it, to be very clear that it is his definition of 'woman' that also offends me!

Badcat666 · 26/02/2017 12:09

The only thing that annoys me is when I get told how I should be a "woman" by a trans person.

It's like a cat saying it is really a badger and then starts telling all the other badgers how to be a badger. Most badgers would be happy with a cat being a badger but would get pissed off if a cat then starts telling them how to be a proper badger. They haven't spent their lives digging dens and digging up worms so don't tell us badgers how to do that.

PlayOnWurtz · 26/02/2017 12:09

Why is it than any other body dysmorphia is treated as a psychiatric issue but trans is a social one?

DianaMemorialJam · 26/02/2017 12:11

So what you're saying moomin is that women are not allowed to specify a preference for what they wish to be referred to as, but trans people can? Ok just so I've got it clear.

Jesus fucking Christ.

CoteDAzur · 26/02/2017 12:11

"OP please don't use the word cis if you can think of an alternative - it is offensive to many - telling someone what to do"

No, a gentle reminder that many women find the term "cis" offensive, therefore considered misgendering, and MNHQ will delete it as such.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 26/02/2017 12:13

No I will not respond. No I am not going to spend all day quoting people to prove a point. Yes you will insult me, but you know what that happens anyway

Being called 'cis' when I am woman and when I have born the brunt of being woman in multiple ways makes me physically ill.

Lweji · 26/02/2017 12:13

Cis is offensive because It is a label that has been forced upon me. I am a woman. End of.

It's a matter of mutual respect.
You want to be called Cindy and by she, fine.
I want to be called a woman, nota subcategory of women.

Just try and call men cis men.

formerbabe · 26/02/2017 12:13

Why is it than any other body dysmorphia is treated as a psychiatric issue but trans is a social one?

Yes, I wonder this too.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 26/02/2017 12:13

Why is it than any other body dysmorphia is treated as a psychiatric issue but trans is a social one?

When you find out please tell me. I cannot get my child psychiatric help on the NHS anymore because I refused medication for my child.

25 year old women who want to be sterilised because they don't want kids are refused despite assessments saying their mental health is perfect, yet they are perfectly happy to effectively sterilise children with next to no assessments at all.

The whole situation if utterly fucked.

Trans activists have a lot to answer for.

OurBlanche · 26/02/2017 12:14

Anothermoomin I'm not sure about some of that. It read like a tautological nightmare.

I am interested, not sniping. Would you expand a little?

DianaMemorialJam · 26/02/2017 12:14

You said it better than me Cote!

Toska · 26/02/2017 12:14

Yanbu. I completely agree.

Toska · 26/02/2017 12:14

Yanbu. I completely agree.