Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BarbarianMum · 26/02/2017 11:18

I used to feel the same as you OP - the only transwoman I knew was a quiet individual who just wanted to get on with her life as best she could and the hostility she faced was awful. But the trans movement as a whole is extremely damaging - to women (see equalities bill), to gay people and to anyone who believes in biology and science. And anyone who questions whether women can really have penises, or Y chromosomes, or whether what you like can determine your sex, or all the gender stereotyping bullshit that comes with it is shouted down. Angry And yy to the whole men controlling women again thing.

SacharissaCrisplock · 26/02/2017 11:18

I absolutely agree, I was talking to RL friends last night at how disappointed I was to discover that the feminist section seems to have a fair amount of transphobic threads. I have been reporting but a lot of them don't get removed so I can only assume that mumsnet doesn't think the is a problem.

I've been lurking for about a year here and mostly read AIBU and Chat and based on that I thought that there were a lot of sound people here but after dipping my toe in to feminism chat I've been quite put off.

OptimisticSix · 26/02/2017 11:19

I agree with you OP. I stay out of that section for those reasons. It's a shame :(

AmberLav · 26/02/2017 11:19

I agree OP. There seems to be an assumption that someone who was born biologically male, who identifies more as a woman is just doing it to get their hands on our rights/children etc. I found the Guides thread to be offensive, and I generally avoid anything the has trans in the title. The athletics threads were transphobic too. There seems to be no tolerance on mn for any male to female transsexual. I haven't noticed the same level of vitriol for female to male transsexuals...

Alconleigh · 26/02/2017 11:19

What formerbabe said.

Not wanting women to be thrown under the bus for the sake of the demands of transactivists isn't any sort of phobia or hate. It's common sense.
I tell you who does hate though, and that's said transactivists. They are men who really, really hate women. And that's a tale as old as time. Just wearing different clothes. Literally.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 11:19

People obsessed with seeing "transphobia" everywhere will see it everywhere, because they are determined to.

Feminist chat is of course going to be talking about womens rights and womens issues. A lot of trans issues directly impact on women in a negative way, and they are allowed to express that in their own space.
Reading all of feminist chat and complaining its all transphobic is indicative of the very problem....trans issues are suddenly the cause of the day and are seen to trump all other issues, and silencing women by calling them transphobic is shitty.

Lweji · 26/02/2017 11:20

I just wish more people discussed it in a civil manner like you have.

But that's MN. People get heated up and obnoxious over nothing.

Strummerville · 26/02/2017 11:20

This comes up often and I just don't get how people can say they "don't understand". The many threads on the topic always contain very clear and articulate summations of the issues people have with trans doctrine and its implications for women and girls. I tend to lurk, but I have no trouble understanding the points made, and have learned a lot.

Maybe instead of thrusting words and opinions you find uncomfortable into a box labelled "transphobia" you could consider what is being said logically and critically and work up a response from a logical, factual standpoint.

I try to consider both sides of any argument, but haven't seen any real challenge to the so-called "transphobic" MN discussion on this issue. I think they are correct. Those who disagree seem to have nothing in their armoury but insults, accusations of bigotry, shock-and-sadface emoticons and calls for silence and deletion.

DoIDareDisturbTheUniverse · 26/02/2017 11:22

This is the problem with 'transactivism'.
Anyone who seeks to critique or engage in debate and discourse around the current issues is shut down and screamed at as 'transphobic'.
The current progressive stance for constant censorship and silencing is getting tiring. I say this as a left wing person - and I do not agree with censorship or shutting down debates.

BuffyChiro · 26/02/2017 11:22

I agree with OP too. Recently, there's been a real uptick in transphobic threads and it's really horrible to see.

Trans women should be allowed access to women's spaces because they are women. Your gender identity is not more valid because you happen to have been born with female sex organs.

IamFriedSpam · 26/02/2017 11:22

YANBU. It's about the only group left which can apparently be treated with disdain and ridicule. Yes there are extremist and I'm sure none of us would agree with those people but to show such a lack of empathy to an entire (very marginalised) group of people is outrageous.

BevGoldbergsSister · 26/02/2017 11:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AllTheLight · 26/02/2017 11:23

The sport thing is a good example IMO. If transwomen are treated exactly like women then it will, genuinely, completely kill off competitive women's sport. No one will win a women's sport unless they were born a man.

To me, that just isn't right. And it's only one example. That's why I can't accept complete tolerance to trans people.

IamFriedSpam · 26/02/2017 11:23

I've seen so many threads/posts along the lines of "god it's so stupid, just because you like boy/girl toys doesn't make you a boy/girl" As if anyone would be so stupid as to go through gender reassignment just because they played with the "wrong" type of toys as a child.

LostMyDotBrain · 26/02/2017 11:23

I don't think it's particularly fair to admit that there are genuine issues for debate with regards to the transfer community while also labelling people whose opinions you dislike as trans phobic.

I've seen plenty of these debates but never once seem anything I'd consider trans phobic.

Original poster
ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:24

Why do women's bathrooms have to make way for everyone and their dog but men's get to stay as men's?

But WTM use men's bathrooms. Or don't they? Sorry if I have misunderstood but isn't it the same?

OurBlanche I agree that this shouldn't happen. I don't pretend to have a solution, I just wish everyone were more accepting, trans activists included!

Fish I am really glad you are getting support here, I was worried MN might be "broken" but maybe not

OP posts:
Keeptrudging · 26/02/2017 11:24

FWIW, I also don't know any trans people, nor do any of my friends. DD does not know any. They are very, very much in a tiny minority, they are just shouting very loudly at the moment. This is leading to things such as a nearby University making toilets unisex because a very vocal LGBT group turned up en masse to the generally poorly attended AGM and voted for it. What about all the other thousands of students who this move is being forced on? Likewise a local secondary which now has unisex toilets AND changing rooms. DD plays rugby. How many girls will carry on playing if they're faced with playing against trans women? That would be downright dangerous, likewise other contact sports. Where are her rights?

Bluntness100 · 26/02/2017 11:24

I also agree with you op, I've seen some terribke comments and to such an extent I don't read those threads any more as I'm appalled by what I've seen, any attempt to make it stop is met with nothing short of abuse and cyber bullying so I took the approach of trying, failing, then not getting involved As it just fuels the vehemence if you try to put a counter view.😞

FourToTheFloor · 26/02/2017 11:25

I think being concerned that woman's rights are being eroded is being incorrectly labelled as transphobia. I have 2 dd so I feel very strongly about that particular part.

And that flipping gender/sex seems to be the latest fad. For genuine trans people they have my support, empathy and help if it's ever needed.

MTF competing against woman, that's not on imo. MTF that don't intend to have the op, I'd ask why not if you're so sure you're in the wrong body.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 11:25

Trans women should be allowed access to women's spaces because they are women. Your gender identity is not more valid because you happen to have been born with female sex organs

Access but not erode. Your gender identity is not more important because you don't have female sex organs.

CrazyGreyhoundLady · 26/02/2017 11:26

I don't want to agree but I do sadly. A lot of the posts aren't quite transphobia (although actually this would be a fear of trans people not a hatred of them whole other thread ) but are close enough that they make me cringe. I agree a lot of what 'hardcore' trans activists say is way OTT and offensive, but normal trans people who just want to live in molested are getting lumped into it.
Also I'm a little concerned that most of the threads are hating on men who trans, I don't think people born as women should get more hate, but I do think it says a lot about attitudes in general.
It's like feminists, I'm a woman, I agree women needs rights, need equality, but there are a lot of 'hardcore' feminists believing their rights should come before a mans. I think we should all just stop the hate, on both sides, and identify as egalitarians instead. (Interestingly enough this would then cover the whole LGBT community with no bun fight involved as well)

Lweji · 26/02/2017 11:26

Your gender identity is not more valid because you happen to have been born with female sex organs

The question is what is gender identity? Who defines gender?

It's certainly not wearing skirts or make up. It's not enjoying sports or cars.
So, what is it to feel like a woman?

cardibach · 26/02/2017 11:26

I have been reporting but a lot of them don't get removed so I can only assume that mumsnet doesn't think the is a problem - or more likely they've investigated and concluded they are not transphobic, simply critical of some transactivism.

AlistairSim · 26/02/2017 11:26

Could you give us some examples of the transphobia you've seen? Some actual things you have seen posted, please.

noeffingidea · 26/02/2017 11:27

I wouldn't be too baffled, OP. I think this kind of thinking is gaining ground in mainstream media (I don't think it ever went away in mainstream society).
People are starting to express themselves freely again.
You agree, some transactivists are extremists, and ask why should ther transgendered persons suffer as a result. Well unfortunately, that does happen rather a lot. A group of people tend to become identified with the most vocal and visible representatives of that group.
To give you another example, there are a small number of Muslim extremists that inflict suffering on others and attempt to infringe their rights. People will only say 'they're just a small minority, most Muslims aren't like that' for a certain amount of time. After that they will start to question the underlying idealogy to determine where the roots of extremism lie.
That is similar to what is happening here. People are starting to question previously held ideas about transgenderism eg, the belief that all MTT's hate their male genitalia and can't wait to get rid of it.
At the same time , some of the basic concepts of transactivism just don't stack up, eg, that transwomen are women. Biology is a matter of fact and it's kind of a bit silly not to expect posters on a forum which specifically deals with the biological realities of women - pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding eg- just to overlook these facts.