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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 15:46

And, crucially, he won't know why it has changed Because he is a dog, and, contrary to some of be bollocks being spouted in this thread by so called animal lovers, he won't know the OP is pregnant, or understand that the baby is part of the family-because he's a dog

FaintlyBaffled · 28/02/2017 16:12

There's also a huge disconnect on this thread where people seem convinced that there will be hoarded of people willing to take on the dog.
As minipie points out upthread, the OP took him on at 8 months when there was still a chance (in her mind at least) that he would improve. At nearly 8 years and with his known issues, his chance of finding a home is slim to non existent and that's just how life is Sad

silkybear · 28/02/2017 16:28

Would love to know if all the people saying keep the dog or see what happens would take their kids to a playdate at lemondrops house? I suspect not.

BaggyCheeks · 28/02/2017 16:53

But the wait and see approach, while normally fine, is a massive, massive, risk in this situation.
Realistically - the OP is going to be on mat leave, and at home. The dog will have to be segregated from an owner who he is used to receiving attention from constantly. How is that fair on the dog? Even stupid stuff like midwife and HV home visits will upset it - the OP's area is anything like mine, the midwife doesn't give you an appointment, they just turn up at any time in the first 10 days (unless you're discharged sooner).

IFinishedTheBiscuits · 28/02/2017 17:19

My parents had what sounds like a similar dog. (And we lived with them for three years when kids were 3 and 5.)
I think half the village breathed a sigh of relief when he died last year. He terrified people through the hedge and he hated other dogs.
However he was brilliant with kids and friendly with people once introduced. Never ever aggressive with people and kids' friends parents said they couldn't believe how affectionate he was considering his show of bravado at the gate.
But I never left kids alone with him, partly for his own protection so they wouldn't climb on him or put him in a position where he felt threatened.
He was bulldog cross Shar Pei so weighed about 6 stone. Actually he did go running for a ball once and knocked my toddler flat on his back - that is a risk with bigger dogs.
I don't envy you OP, it's a really difficult decision.

JessicaLeo1980 · 28/02/2017 17:34

I was terrified when I was pregnant with my first son. Our Jack Russell has seperation anxiety and I was really scared how he would react to a new baby. I thought he may be jealous and we would have to rehome him. I asked my other half to bring a blanket back from the hospital for him and when we arrived home we had our Jack on a lead and let him sniff the baby. From that moment on they were best friends. We now have a second baby which we did the same introduction with and our dog howls whenever he is crying to get my attention. We were lucky that they all get on but the early days were tough. There were days when we didn't have the energy to take a walk and it was easier for us as our Jack Russell is quite a small dog so he can be attached to the pram.
My advice would be to perhaps contact a rehoming centre and ask for advice? If they are a decent one they should be able to give you contact details of good dog behaviourists. Our dog can't be left for more than an hour on his own as he gets stressed so we have to work our life around him or drop him off at my parents house if we want to do things which is a bit of a pain but we have learnt to adapt. Our oldest son is constantly saying how much he loves dogs and it makes my heart melt as it was so tough at the beginning. There have been many times along the way that it would have been easier to give up and have our dog rehomed but he is part of the family and we wanted to see how he reacted before we did anything drastic.
See what a good dog behaviourist says and if they think there is no other option then you will have to think about rehoming him, but you may be surprised that he welcomes the baby as part of the pack. You'll always have to be careful and keep them apart when you're not in the room for safety but you'd have to do that with any dog.

Holldstock1 · 28/02/2017 17:38

OP, I haven't read all of the messages on here because there are alot! Please read this because I have details for you of a rescue who might be able to help, although I don't know where you are in the country.

I have 2 rescue dogs, 1 who is a Black Lab x GSD - 100% reliable, gentle and laid back (and has been the best dog I've ever had), and we got her when my boys were quite small as I didn't want them growing up frightened of dogs.

The other we got from the same rescue about 8 years ago when our first dog was about 8/9 for company. He's a Staffy x Greyhound (we think). He was just under a year when we got him, and had had a number of puppy foster homes before we took him. I think he probably wasn't socialized properly.

He is a great dog, he is not vicious, very good natured and a fanatic with balls, is dominated by our cat, wanders around with our chickens and is quite the comedian, but despite having given him a loving home, he has issues. He is very fearful and can be protective of the family and the home which means he challenges. He looks the business running up growling and barking, and while we know he wouldn't do anything - he just barks then runs away, other people who don't know him, don't realise that - I'd feel wary if he wasn't my dog and I didn't know his nature. Plus he's terrified of rain and thunder, so we've had problems. We wouldn't get rid of him for the world (despite him eating the boot of my last car, dislocating my knee by running into back of my leg - clumsy as partially sighted, and the thunder phobia). Most people would not put up with him (and so miss seeing his loveable nature). So I understand completely how you can have a dog with issues and love him.

But I didn't have a baby, or a toddler when we got him, and our children were 9 and 8 when we did and used to dogs. I seriously do not believe he would do anything (we would not have kept him if we did), but these types of problems are not easy to handle, and I don't think I could have managed him when I was a new mother with a baby.

I think realistically you know you won't manage this either. I understand the agony of your situation and the thought of either rehoming or putting your dog to sleep must be unbearable.

The rescue we got our dogs from do not PTS unless its medically for the best. I don't know if they still take dogs in (as they were retiring), but I do know that they still have some dogs still there. Look at their website.

They have taken in and kept dogs which are not re-homeable, due to injuries or physical conditions, or due to temperment - I know they had one dog there - a golden retriever who was surrendered to them by his family because he had alot of issues and had bitten basically everyone. This rescue took him in, and the family paid them for his upkeep.

They are amazing people who have dedicated their lives to helping dogs and they are very experienced with difficult dogs.

I don't know if they could help you OP, but I would suggest at least talking to them, they might be able to advise you even if they cannot take your dog themselves. The name of the rescue is Poplar Farm Kennels at Sutton Gault in Cambridgeshire. www.poplarfarmkennels.org.uk/

Good luck OP. I hope you find the right solution for your family and for your dog. Will be thinking of you all.

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 17:39

"See what a good dog behaviourist says"

AS SHE HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

IFinishedTheBiscuits · 28/02/2017 17:41

Holldstock1 - we know Poplar Farm! My sister takes bedding to them when she can.

Lemondrop09 · 28/02/2017 18:59

Hi all. Just to say I'm still here. I'm having a really bad day with my HG and have spent most of the day curled in bed either sleeping or feeling sorry for myself. Will try to read all the replies tomorrow when I hopefully feel a bit better.

OP posts:
mummymeister · 28/02/2017 19:12

Lemondrop09 - oh no poor you. hope you feel a bit better tomorrow.

GreyHare · 28/02/2017 19:26

I'm fairly new to Mumsnet but is this common behaviour that people don't read the 28 pages of replies, mind boggled!

Lynnm63 · 28/02/2017 19:40

So sorry you're feeling rough. I had very bad sickness in pregnancy so you have my heartfelt sympathy.

tabithakitty · 28/02/2017 19:56

Oh man what a dreadful decision to have to make. Poor you.

I've been reading your thread over the last few days and haven't known quite how to respond but you have been in my thoughts a lot.

My DD is now 3; when she was born our pup was almost a year old. He's a fairly highly strung working breed and over 20kg. I call him my first born and love him with all my heart.

He wasn't a rescue and had no behavioural problems; a very gentle temperament, albeit pretty neurotic.

Anyway I was REALLY careful with him when DD was born. You need to be with any dog (my friend has a wee labrador who looks angelic but is quite snappy, for example), and I didn't leave them alone and made sure I had some time with dog alone to continue his training etc.

We have never had an incident and I am a bit more relaxed now, although I still wouldn't leave them alone for longer than a second, and I make sure doggy always has a comfy place to slink away to if he's had enough; he does this frequently and reappears at bed time. We are also lucky in that we live in the county, and so he's in the garden a lot.

The up side from his point of view is that I am home much more and the 3 of us go for lovely walks together, which obvs he loves. He is fine off the lead, comes back when I call him and is never aggressive or dominant with other dogs.

I guess OP what I'm saying is even with a dog who is a 'good bet', and has no baggage or behavioural issues, it's still quite a lot to deal with, and a lot of worry and being very careful.

On the subject of having animals PTS generally, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that people should do it more often. There are countless thousands of pets who are neglected and abused - yes, the ideal situation is to rehome them all to loving, responsible and knowledgeable homes. But that is a tall order, and with some animals there is no guarantee that they won't just keep being passed from pillar to post. Kinder to have them PTS than have them go through that. If I were you I don't think I would consider rehoming your dog.

I knew a lady who had 3 horses all over the age of 20. She couldn't afford to keep them any more and she had them all PTS together. Hideous for her, but I do think she did the right thing. I can't bear it when I see horses of that age for sale. Have them PTS rather than subject them to (at the very best) an uncertain future. My horse is also over 20, and if I couldn't afford to keep him, or his behavioural problems became unmanageable, I wouldn't even consider rehoming. I would have him PTS.

Sorry for the essay! The decision will probably come to you when you are least expecting it.

JessicaLeo1980 · 28/02/2017 20:20

BertrandRussell That's why I said ask at a rehoming centre as behaviourists will vary in quality and rehoming centres will know the ones who may have dealt with similar issues. We took our dog to puppy training classes and the trainer was useless!

doozeldog · 28/02/2017 20:27

I don't really post on here much but I felt compelled to write to you!

I could of written this myself I was in your exact same position a few months ago! Firstly I'd like to say please don't stress yourself out, I know it's hard because you love your dog but I've been there!
We have a rescue lurcher, we've had him three years and my god can he be hard work, total demon to walk,he can't be let off the lead because he will run off and if he sees a rabbit or chicken he will kill it! We know nothing about his background so we didn't no know what we were dealing with! I found out I was pregnant and I was mega stressing about the dog and how it would effect him, like you. I considered rehoming even though it would break my heart and even thought about pts but I honestly couldn't do that! For months on end I had comments from close family about getting rid of him and I can not tell you how ill that made me, it was none stop! Anyway I decided to give him a chance and at the first sign of a issue he would have to go to the dogs trust!

This is what I did.

  1. played crying new born baby sounds (YouTube) regularly through out the day
  2. set up the Moses basket downstairs with a doll in it and I picked up the doll and pretended it was a baby
  3. bought extra high baby gates for each room
  4. made out dining room is safe zone, I filled it with all this things and that's where he went regularly during the day to have his chill out time, I did this so he got use to periods of time away from us. I did all of the above for about 4 months before baby came so it as a already established routine.

I was very lucky because when I bought baby home he wasn't even bothered and now I have a chilled dog who enjoyed his own space and the baby is safe behind the gates. In the evening he come in the the living room with us and relaxes. It goes without saying that I'd never leave him alone with the baby but I wouldn't leave any animal with the baby.

Just think about what the best situation is for you and go with your gut

Hope I've helped a bit I just needed to reply to you as I've seen a overwhelming amount of ppl saying to pts but it doesn't always have to be that way. Xx

dowhatnow · 28/02/2017 21:03

You could do as some posters are advocating and give it a try. It may well be perfectly fine as these posters have discovered. Or it might not...

early30smum · 28/02/2017 21:11

Hope you feel better soon OP. Thinking of you.Flowers

shineon · 28/02/2017 21:34

Op just wanted to say I really feel for you. Not just about the dog situation but the HG. I had it severely on both my pregnancies & it was th worst experience of my life. Enduring that is enough for now so I would not put any pressure on yourself to make this decision right now. Although I do agree with the majority I think the kindest & most sensible thing to do is pts. You have given him a great life he wouldn't have otherwise had. All the best

PageStillNotFound404 · 28/02/2017 22:32

Sorry to hear you're feeling so rough OP, hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

To those advocating the "wait and see" approach, the risk with this particular dog is that he doesn't give warnings. He doesn't growl or raise his hackles or give the OP a chance to see that he's uncomfortable in a situation. At some point, dog and baby are going to have to interact, unless you're seriously suggesting that the dog is effectively banished from family life for ever more - which is cruel. Even under close supervision, would you want to risk having your child in a room with a dog who goes from 0-lunge? Would you back your reflexes to haul off a 40kg dog in time if something suddenly stressed him out?

thetreesarebare · 28/02/2017 22:50

This is a horrendous decision for you. I had a rescued cross bread. He was so loveable but if given the chance mauled anything in sight. We took him to numerous trainers/behaviourists. He literally wrecked out house on a daily basis but we kept at it for years. He didn't improve but that was fine as we could handle him. When I fell pregnant we contacted the trainers/behaviourists again & they told us unless we could find someone with loads of land & no kids the kindest thing we could do is put him to sleep. It was the hardest & most heartbreaking decision we ever made. There is obviously more to this but without going into detail it was the best decision. I have another rescue dog so didn't do this lightly. My heart breaks for you but I think you know what you need to do.

Mummym2005 · 02/03/2017 20:05

What an absolubtly lovely lady! Only you can know for sure what to do as only you know your dog.
Maybe it would be best to take a wait and see attitude? Our dog came to live with us at seven months old,. She had had for homes in that time as no one seemed to be able to cope with her.Her aggression is also fear based ,more towards other dogs than anything.I became pregnant a year later. All through my pregnancy she was very protective and developed a great fascination with my growing stomach.We too were wary of keeping her but both of us adored her and she wasnt rehomable.Guess what?! It turned out the dog was more maternal than me! We nicknamed her little mother ! She and dd becamd inseparable!I would never ever recommend a child of any age be left alone with any dog no matter how well behaved or not but i wonder if you are not tired hormonal poorly and perhaps being pressured by other people?This may be a worry over nothing and everything may be okay.If nothing else its not going to help your sickness is it.? Our dog is now fourteenand they are still as close as ever.I am forever grateful we didnt bow to pressure over what ifs.That said , if your dog ever shows any aggression towards the baby then you know what you must do, for everyone's sake. I wish you and your family al the best for the future and hope everything turns out okay .perhaps you could let us all know how it goes?

Zsuzsika · 06/03/2017 07:51

This is a difficult one.

But. Think about it this way, if the dog harmed your newborn child, what would you do with the dog then? And would you ever forgive yourself? I am an absolute dog lover, I have had dogs before but i am now expecting my second child, my first born is not yet 2 and i could never forgive myself if my dog had done anything to my precious little darling who i adore more than anything in this world! Something to think about... (because i do believe once you had the baby you will also feel this way)

CRAZZZYLADY40 · 08/03/2017 17:56

what a worrying situation for you, you clearly love your dog and want only the best. have you spoken to your vet? maybe they could offer advise or send you in the right direction? many breeds have their own clubs, maybe one of them could help or put you in touch with someone who knows how to handle difficult dogs.
personally I don't think a dog should be locked away. stair gates are a good idea, dog can see whats going on.
All dogs should be supervised around children whether they are big or small until you know for sure.
if you read the requirements for some of the dogs in rehoming centers many state adult only or no other pets , nervous or shy until familiar so your dog cant be the only one with issues and are being given a second chance.
Good luck, I hope you find a solution that has a happy outcome for all of you

imjessie · 08/03/2017 20:24

I totally agree with you Tabitha kitty .. I've known loads of elderly horses who have been pts and it's the kindest thing sometimes . I kept my pony until she was 37 with a combination of me and full livery with a friend . It cost me a bloody fortune but I loved her and wanted to care for her . Had I run out of money I would have had her PTS . I couldn't have risked her being mistreated somewhere else .. I would also do the same with my elderly cat if for any reason I couldn't care for him. He knows nothing but me and is very very attached to me . Re homing has its place but sometimes euthanasia is the kinder option .