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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Crumbs1 · 28/02/2017 08:32

Faintly baffled I think we agree but to best of my knowledge the same injection is used to destroy dogs and put them to sleep. You do euphanism I do a term with greater clarity. Dead dogs are not asleep. Process, however is same.

greeneyedlulu · 28/02/2017 08:36

You'd be doing the kindest (and safest) thing by putting him to sleep

FruitCider · 28/02/2017 08:52

Oh OP what a terrible situation for you!

If you have worked on your dog for 8 years, he weighs over 40kg and has a strong prey instinct along with fear aggression I wouldn't be keeping him with a new baby. If he can't be rehomed then I would give him an amazing few weeks, then have him PTS. Your lovely dog won't have a clue what's happening at the time and it will be much kinder than reserving him to a life in kennels...

Flowers
thetemptationofchocolate · 28/02/2017 08:59

I'm in the PTS camp too I'm afraid. I think it's the safest option for all and I know it will break your heart having to do it.
Your dog is a very big dog. Large dogs don't live so long as small ones do, as a rule, so at eight years old he will be getting on now. You will probably be facing this decision, baby or no baby, quite soon. Maybe it will be better for all in the long run if you do it before problems emerge, then you will not have your dog's memory tainted by trouble.
It will indeed be much better for your dog if he can go with his people around him, than in some anonymous kennel somewhere.

frozenfairy123 · 28/02/2017 09:09

I would not risk this dog with a baby sorry I know it's upsetting but safety of a baby is paramount x

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 09:14

Pts is a euphemism, yes. But "destroy" is a sort of anti euphemism. The end result is a dead dog. But pts is closer to what actually happens than "destroy" - a word nobody would use unless they were trying to make people feel guilt ridden and even more anguished than they are already. Which is the agenda of a bully and a loon.

Blu99 · 28/02/2017 09:15

Try your hardest to find a new home for him starting now. If you can't, he needs to be put down. Never ever take that risk with your baby. Your dog could be fine for years and then randomly attack. Animals are unpredictable.

littleladybird14 · 28/02/2017 09:35

Page - must have missed that

ATEOTD just trying to help find a solution before an animal is killed...Hmm

FraterculaArctica · 28/02/2017 09:41

Lemon I know nothing about dogs but I would definitely caution you against assuming that you'll have 'an evening' when your baby is in bed if this is central to how you would manage things if you keep the dog. My DD is 6 months and still doesn't really crash out for the night till 10 or even 11 pm and this is not unusual. And my DS was asleep by 8 at the same age but woke up every 45 minutes all evening so I was forever up and down. It's stressful enough wishing your baby would just give you a few hours off in the evening without this being an integral part of a dog management plan too!

stellalily123 · 28/02/2017 09:44

Bless you, such a worry. My dog is dog reactive and a big dog and fearful of unknown people. I can't believe a lot on here are suggesting euthanasia. All dogs have the potential to bite and attack babies and children and need constant supervision. This is standard practice. I think give the dog a chance. As long as you keep a watchful eye it will be fine. Cross the next bridge when you come to it. You obviously love your dog which is so lovely to hear. Also, some dog walkers specialise in dogs with behavioural problems too so I wouldn't discount this. Good luck lovely x

MummysBusy · 28/02/2017 09:45

Op don't know if you've come to a decision but I wanted to add my experience as someone who has been on both sides of it. DP'S dogs are very similar (although not rehomes, just poorly trained and socialised) and the wider family won't have anything to do with them as they're "dangerous". Having lived with the dogs myself I know them to be sweet and gentle, if unruly.

When I moved out and later brought my DH home to meet them, my DP and I were expecting a disaster. One of the dogs hates men and they're both bad with strangers. To our shock they took to DH immediately. It was like they understood that he belonged to me!

When Dd came along we were more relaxed with the meeting. The female dog has always loved baby animals, nursed soft toys and the like. If anything we thought she might become possessive of DD. The małe dog was more of a problem, we thought, because of his size and boisterousness.

Nope. Female dog was nervous of DD as a baby and even growls at her now. Male dog is friendly and gentle.

My point is that you really don't know what your dog will do, Op, and it's not worth finding out. It's a horrible decision to make, but it's just not worth the risk. If you try and keep the dog separate from your baby your dog is going to be miserable. He may not understand why you're adding barriers between you after all these years. He may get jealous. He may get destructive. You just dont know and you are going to be tense from worrying about it. Your DH doesn't enjoy being sole walker. Who is this benefitting?

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 09:46

"ATEOTD just trying to help find a solution before an animal is killed...hmm"

Yeah, by suggesting either stuff the OP has been doing for 8 years or stuff that is cruel to the dog.

littleladybird14 · 28/02/2017 09:50

Cruel to the dog? And killing it isnt? Really?!

MummysBusy · 28/02/2017 09:54

And just to add- this idea of constant supervision being key is useless if you KNOW your dog is likely to have issues. You just spend all your time waiting for something to happen. Jumping up whenever it looks like something COULD happen. And knowing you'd probably be too slow to stop it anyway. If my DP's dogs were mine I would have had them put down before DD came along, even though I thought I knew them well. There was always going to be issues, it was just a matter of what kind.

stonecircle · 28/02/2017 09:54

How about using the term 'put down'? Not quite as blunt as 'killed' but less annoying for those of us who find the term PTS an inaccurate euphemism for people to hide behind.

NataliaOsipova · 28/02/2017 09:59

I'm not sure semantics helps! The vet will give the dog a lethal injection. Given the dog will not be aware of what is happening, I would not class this as cruelty to the dog.

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 09:59

No. Killing it is not cruel.

Taking it away from everything it knows and loves and subjecting it to life in kennels or an uncertain future with strangers is.

Blackfellpony · 28/02/2017 10:05

Euthanasia is not cruel.

I don't agree with taking an old dog away from family, away from people who love him and everything he has known for 8 years to place him in an uncertain position. The OP has stated he is nervous and scared of new things, how terrifying it must be as an anxious dog to be put in that sort of situation at his age.

Even the best of trainers can't rehabilitate all dogs. I've seen trainers work with dogs for YEARS with little to no improvement.

Or the alternative. Put the dog to sleep surrounded by the people who love him with him not having a clue about it.

I know which I would choose for mine.

littleladybird14 · 28/02/2017 10:06

Put down, PTS, the end result is the same, the terminology just makes us feel less guilty Confused .
It just seems too easy a solution when the dog no longer fits with our current situation. OP has commited so much time money and dedication to this dog and i get that a new child is of course the top priority but if thats the case anyone with dogs would have them PTS when a child arrives. ANY dog is capable of the unthinkable but we take sensible steps to ensure the safety and secuity of our children - speaking first hand from experience of a fear aggresive dog and having two DC myself under the age of 4.

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 10:10

"It just seems too easy a solution when the dog no longer fits with our current situation"

Because that sums up the OP's attitude perfectly.Hmm God preserve me from anthropomorphizing sentimentalists.

Branleuse · 28/02/2017 10:12

killing a dangerous dog is not cruel. Its your final act of kindness. A fear aggressive dog is not happy

teacups83 · 28/02/2017 10:15

This thread is mental. I can't imagine going into the vets "hi yeah just here to have my healthy dog put to sleep" "what's he done, oh nothing but I've had a baby". Fucking nuts.

BertrandRussell · 28/02/2017 10:16

You've read the thread, teacups, yes?

PageStillNotFound404 · 28/02/2017 10:17

Any dog is capable of doing harm to a child but there are differing levels of risk. Most dogs with no pre-existing issues - and even some that have - can be prepared for the arrival of a new baby, if the owners are prepared to put the work in. This dog, because of its specific issues, presents a greater risk then most - because it doesn't give a warning before it lunges, because of its size, because 7.5 years of constant and consistent training and management by a switched-on and committed owner have still only got it to a point where it can't be trusted to even average levels around strangers or other dogs, it can't be left out in the garden while they're in the house, it can't settle or wait quietly if its walk or food is slightly delayed.

NataliaOsipova · 28/02/2017 10:20

....and I can't imagine going into A&E. "Hi, yeah, my 40kg fear aggressive dog has just mauled my baby." "Weren't you ever concerned that such a dog could be a risk to a small child?" "Yeah, but he hadn't done anything, so we thought we'd just give it a try and see what happened."

That's the converse....