To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

I havent managed all of the replies but I have read all of op's responses

I would suggest

1 get in a sleep expert and crack her sleeping. It will help all of you

2 you describe this scenario

"Do you want to walk or go on your buggy board?"
"Nooooooooo!"
"I can't carry you, DD! You're a big girl now with big strong legs! Show me how well you can walk!"
"Nooooooooo!"

You say " here is a choice" she goes " noooo" then YOU make the choice. Tell her outright " DD Do you want to walk or go on buggy board if you don't make a decision right now then I will make that decision"
DD NOOOO
OP " right you are going to be walking then. Now come along"

If she goes into NOOOO then ignore take her hand and start walking (even if to begin with this is a big of a drag - obviously dont hurt her but be precise)

I would also Consider
Prior to even getting to the choice sit down with her and say
"DD we are going to go down to the shops I want you to walk all the way there. IF you get tired you can tell me and go on the buggy board"

then if she goes into " carry me" you have already explained what is going to happen. Dont allow her to climb on you. Don't permit her to scream and stuff Just quietly and firmly state " DD I told you you had to walk and if you wanted to you can go on the buggy board - do you want to go on the buggy board?" Chances are high she will at this point agree to this. If not and she continues with NOOO trying to climb you tell her firmly " NO dd you are not allowed to climb on me"

I think I do know what you mean about wanting to be her friend.. You want to have a close relationship with her where you can enjoy each others company and one where she feel you can confide in you. However she will only do that if she feels she has respect for who you are. If you are someone who she can climb all over (literally right now but hopefully not when she is older ) that relationship wont ever happen. She will see you as a push over and someone who isnt able to follow through. So to get the type of relationship I think you are talking about. You do need to right now be the one who is in charge and who calls the shots.

I have 4 teenagers now. I enjoy them very much and I know they enjoy spending time with me as they regularly choose to do so rather than go out with friends. However they know even now that attitude and rudeness goes no where. I have just 10 mins ago had a conversation with DS age 15 about him leaving a plate upstairs in his bedroom and not taking it down for the dishwasher. He gave attitude and it was quickly shot down by me. He sulked for about 5 mins then came and gave me a hug and is now sat scoffing a muffin watching his younger sister on the Xbox and cracking jokes. Forgotten is the plate and he is back to being the lovely boy he is most of the time...

Allow yourself and dd time to enjoy each other. However also do a bit of gentle pushing towards DH and DD enjoying time together just them. (and for Older bro and younger sister to get some 1 on 1 time)

Pressed send to quick.

Do speak to your HV or local children center about a parenting course. If we were not parented brilliantly by our own parents finding the way we wish to parent can be really hard. A course will likely help you a great deal. (perhaps also make you some friends)

Mary - I always cuddle my children if they have tantrums, they desperately need help controlling their emotions. It isn't rewarding the tantrum, if they are freaking out because they wanted chocolate and I said no I would always comfort and cuddle and empathise about how hard it is not to get what you want. But I wouldn't give them the chocolate - that would be rewarding the tantrum. I'm happy to help them calm themselves, they are still very new to the world and struggle to calm down alone.

It sounds to me like you've parented your DC1 in the normal way, i.e. put average boundaries in place, and then DC2 came along and of course you expected that those same boundaries would work.

DD2 is obviously a lot more strong willed so those boundaries are not working. Some children will push the boundaries no matter what they are and I had to have tighter boundaries for my strong willed children than my compliant child.

I think you've been given a hard time on this thread OP. You recognised there's a problem with your DD's behaviour so you're asking for advice because you're unsure how to proceed. That's being a good parent in my book. And the fact that she behaves nicely at nursery means that she knows how to behave which means you've taught her that. Again that's being a good parent in my book.

There is nothing that you've said that absolutely means that your DD is insecure or will grow into an unpleasant child/teenager/adult. My DD1 was unpleasant in my presence until she was 12. Then she turned into the most lovely teenager and now young woman. DD3 (10) is still unpleasant with me but her teacher last year said that she wishes she had 30 DD3s in her class.

Have a chat with your DH, find some common ground and agree some strategies. Your DD will be fine if you work as a team and put boundaries into place.

I've only read the first page of 100 or so posts and have come to think that the three year old is ruling the roost and while at it, is running rings around your entire family and life.
OP, you've said that you want to be her friend. Be her mother first. She will appreciate it more in the long run. Friendship will happen but without the respect for her parents that will take a lot longer and you'll have a whole heap of issues to deal with in the interim.

I completely agree with the others who have suggested that you need to deal with her behaviour as a team with your DH. Agree between yourselves what the consequences will be if she does X, Y or Z. Stick to that. Have simple house rules. Everyone says please, thank you. Everyone is kind to each other. Believe me these will permeate throughout her life if it starts at home.
Good luck!

Tired children do struggle with behaviour. She manages to hold it together for a short time at nursery but it doesn't change how grotty she really truly feels.

How can you help her get more sleep?

Ginger, I never undermine DH, it's just DD spends most of her time with me, so obviously "my" parenting is at fault.

I don't think I need parenting classes, though!

I was just about to type the same thing as Enko in response to what you wrote here, OP:

"Do you want to walk or go on your buggy board?"
"Nooooooooo!"
"I can't carry you, DD! You're a big girl now with big strong legs! Show me how well you can walk!"
"Nooooooooo!"

and on ...

You do realise most toddlers react this way it least some of the time but what isn't done most of the time, is parents just trying to 'reason, or 'plead' or 'give in' to these reactions.

It's what you do about the screechy "No's" that is key here and Enko is correct. If your DD won't take you up on your choices, you take over. You've been fair to the child but they've made a choice based on their tantrum, to have you lead. Your 18 month old is going to see their sister gets what she wants when she tantrums and you don't want that!!

Just a thought though, as I can appreciate a tantrumming DD is difficult to hold on a buggy board-you do know you can get seated buggy boards, where you could strap her to it?

Parenting classes aren't an insult. They can help! I've been to one about fussy eaters (really helped)

Parenting books from amazon are better!

I don't think they are an insult, but nor are they for me.

She does sound badly behaved, yes. And I agree that you need some new strategies. You are in charge and both you and she need to feel it. You need to impose authority and she will be happier and feel safer when you do. I agree that too many questions/ options will be entirely counterproductive, and always ignore a tantrum if you safely can.

You can do it. Think about why you feel uncomfortable with it. Then make yourself do it!

From reading your post, she sounds a lot like my parents describe me as a toddler. I was wilful and threw a lot of tantrums, but I'm now a very happy, well adjusted, what I would consider successful adult.

I have no idea what caused my behaviour, but I grew out of it.

I used to work in urseey childcare and now I nanny and I see this a lot.

Consequences for a 3 year old can be anything from being removed from the situation (picked up and moved if necessary), item being taken away, if on a walk you refuse to move and don't engage until she walks (you have to have plenty of time for this!).
No HAS to mean no.
You don't offer choices, or options, or bribe, or ask. You say what's what and you mean it. The rest of the time you are your normal, loving, fun mum self.
When you say no and then you change your mind, when does the 3 year old ever know when you really mean it? Presumably you never do?
You and your DH must stand firm together and lots of praise and hugs etc for good/obedient behaviour. You can change it if you stick to your guns and she will be happier as she knows where she stands rather than being unsure if a no is really a yes if she moans for long enough.

Yes, I know - you all know someone like me, apparently! Except you don't!

Sorry guilt of not reading the whole thread.... Have you watched episodes of the 3 day nanny or super nanny? They have dealt with a few tricky 3 year olds and I find those sorts of programmes really helpful for giving me a few tips!

And I also agree with lack of sleep possibly being a big factor here. My nearly three year old is always trying to keep up with her big sister and consequently often over tired. Her behaviour is atrocious when she's tired.

It's not about "fault" though Ticket.

We are all on a parenting journey. No one gets it right all the time.

Some of the changes you need to make are probably quite small. If she's well behaved for Daddy and nursery then clearly she responds well to firm boundaries so lots of the work is already done!

You just need to have a think about whether changing some of your approach would have a positive impact on your relationship and interactions.

It's it about wholesale throwing out your Gentle parenting, it's just about applying some firm boundaries at the same time.

She's only three, it's a perfect time for this change. Have confidence in yourself.

Best wishes.

I think you have to choose a path, discuss with Dh so your both on board, and then stick to it.

You can be the gentle parent you want to be, you can have boundaries while being respectful and gentle. You just have to be consistent in your approach.

I echo the suggestion of Supernanny episodes, although JF is a bit annoying she has some pretty good ideas IIRC...

Haven't read the full thread, but if you are gentle parenting minded then the Gentle Discipline Book is the one for you. It's by Sarah Ockwell-Smith and is just about to be released. It is perfectly possible to discipline in a gentle way without punishment, bribes/over praising or ignoring tantrums.

We're just sharing observations OP. You are free to ignore, of course. But you asked so I think people have assumed you're up for some observations and advice. Of course we dont know you or your daughter but that's the internet for you.

Backing, I absolutely am, but I feel some are being less about helping me and more about venting frustration at various acquaintances who apparently have "a DD like mine."

Completely agree that Sarah Ockwell-Smiths books are well worth a read OP

I've had 4 dc age 3...2 have ASD...but never had this...I think she's out of control and screaming for boundaries..for example mine were never allowed to cause a disturbance that would impact on anyone else..I see Many kids in coffee shops screaming and parents ignor it and carry on,ruining coffee for everyone mine would be removed immediately from the situation..I absolutely would not stand for any behaviour that impacted on another person..screaming for a different present.never..I would remove from the room and they got nothing...bearing in mind I've 2 with ASD,I never went anywhere without snacks ,drinks,colourings,games.ect...none of this playing on a phone either...mine had strict routine,bath at 6 bed and story at 7...all naps were dropped by age 2.. I also home educated and they didn't go to school till age 9.. anyway I think it comes down to what you are prepared to put up with...screaming was an absolute no no for me..