To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

*You feel a right bloody wazzock going into raptures" YY! I often feel like Mummy Pig from Peppa Pig.

If DS starts screeching at home I calmly tell him that he's being rude and I don't want to listen when he does that, and walk into another room where I can keep an eye on him without him realising it. I keep moving away from him until he stops it.

I don't think it is something you have or haven't done, children are just different, some are easier than others

And the parents have no effect on them? Sorry, but thats the kind of thing you hear from parents who won't discipline their children, they say "thats just the way they are". No, its your job to teach them how to behave.

Something else I find helps is having something to calm me down. DS is the master of button pushing, and when he does I have a pack of toffee cappuccino sachets, so I go and make myself one and take a few deep breaths.

You've both got in to a pattern of behaviour and need to work out new stratageies.

i have a sensitive, very aware and tuned in child. These are things that helped

Routine.

Timely manner - be 15 minutes ahead of yourself

Firm calm fair and consistent boundaries. Do not change your mind or be persuaded by her.

Give her space to get over her heated temper. Leave her alone. But amazingly some children really prefer to be held

Never react badly. Never shout or smack. Model the reasonable polite behaviour you want her to have

If she's big hearted, help her to empathise.

Give her choices between two things so she feels she has some control

Tell her what's happening next to help her understand the rythem of the day

If she says something rudely, calmly rephrase what she said politely

"She does tantrum but they tend to happen when she is tired. And when she is tired threatening her with losing her juice or toy does not help. She doesn't hear the "if" part - she doesn't hear "IF you carry on with X you will lose Y" - she just hears "you will lose Y" and goes straight into a high pitched whine "nooooooOOOOOO."

My GP friend always puts her son's poor conduct down to him being tired as well. It's really because he is a tiny tyrant who gets his own way through tantrums. She hears you anfd the "IF" perfectly well btw - stop making excuses for her...it won't help.

The reason she behaves perfectly well at nursery is because they impose clear boundaries and rules and she knows where she stands.

Mostly praise when she's polite and doing the right thing

You have had some really good advice on here op. I think your dd sounds quite insecure. When she kicks off she can see that she is upsetting you and i imagine that gives her a sense of power which on one level she enjoys, but on another level she feels guilty about it and she doesn't know what to do with those feelings. Its really tough when your beloved child is upset/crying/tantruming you feel it nearly as much as they do but you can't stop it or control it, she needs to learn to do that and she is getting mixed messages from you. You reward the tantrum by giving in, yet you tell her its wrong and are clearly upset by it. We all feel that we would give anything, do anything to make our child happy, but the reality is that giving them what they want all the time will not make them happy, because sometimes they don't know what they want, or can't have what they want. You need to be her parent not her friend, She needs firm guidelines on how to behave, her spirit will not be crushed by learning to behave in a more acceptable way. I have four strong willed dds, 3 of whom are now grown up and they are all lovely, feisty, opinionated, strong young women. We had our battles over the years but there was never any doubt who was in charge. Sorry if that is all a bit garbled, good luck with your lo, you sound like a lovely, caring mum.

I am a great believer on the carrot rather than the stick. LOTS of praise when she's good. Notice little inconsequential ways in which she is polite, obedient etc and tell her how wonderful her behaviour is.

Insecure is the word. Do not assume a strong willed child is or will be self confident. Ime as they let the emotions overwhelm them so the opinion if others. It took me years to realise this about my children

I also love the way my mum used to repeat rudeness in a different way back to us but calmly!!

For example "I want a drink" would be responded with "that's nice, I want a swimming pool in the back garden!" Then she'd carry on what she was doing!

"I'm hungry" would be met with "I'm Jonny - nice to meet you".

I love this because it's a great simple no confrontational way of showing children how their language gets results.
She did a lot of modelling good ways to phrase things through everyday talk. We knew and we also knew we wouldn't get what we wanted unless we asked properly.

I agree Pictish

I agree with youarenotkiddingme when DS starts getting fed up when out and about, when he says "I'm booooored!!!" I calmly say "yes, me too, its a boring place isn't it? If we be patient we can get it done sooner and crack on with fun things instead, we just have to be patient for a bit longer." That seems to stop him in his tracks quite often.

If she isn't get the if then part of the conversation then try a different approach.

Something like "you are obviously tired, I'm not happy with your behaviour right now, we are not discussing it, we are going home."

I know you want her to be able to talk to you, but you can't have a sensible conversation with an over tired toddler. Take the decision away from her, remove her from the situation and try again when she isn't tired.

Sorry autocorrect, if she isn't getting.

Definitely insecurity! As to how you deal with it it is for you to figure out. Read also playful parenting which is good, along with the earlier recommendation (how to speak so children will listen).

Personally I don't think time outs, naughty steps etc are good tools. Nor reward charts altho I'll admit to using those once with older daughter and it wasn't all bad but I don't think it sends quite the right message.

She's obviously expressing something, that she feels insecure, that she needs you. It is about giving her that reassurance but as a parent, not a friend. You're her mother not her friend and that's really key. You're there to guide her, provide structure but also provide unconditional love.

she doesn't hear "IF you carry on with X you will lose Y"

I used to think my DCs just heard "carry on with x." It improved when I said what I wanted them to do, ie "I want you do stop doing x"

Also I expect someone else has said this (haven't read more recent posts), you need to be specific, saying "be good" is meaningless, they don't know what "good" means; you have to say "stay in your chair and don't run off" rather than "be good."

You've got an 18 month old, have you tried encouraging your daughter through the baby as such?

I have a 2.2 year old DD and a 3 month old DS. When DD refuses to walk I talk to DS "No your too little to walk DS, your not a big girl like DD, look at her walking so nicely" "DS thinks your walking like a big girl he says your really good"

She absolutely loves it loves showing off for her brother, I do it with everything positive.

Negative behaviour gets literally ignored so when she's tantruming if it's daft I literally leave the room and let her tantrum by herself

Before DS came along DD was still sleeping in my bed, refusing to walk anywhere, biting, screaming wen she didn't get her own way

It's been 3 months now and she's so much better,

My thing has been show DS what to do, DS thinks your doing a great job etc, your such a big girl walking nicely, your not a baby like DS are you etc

She absolutely loves it and now it's at the point when she does somthIng she shouts her brother to look :)

Tantrums - stand still, do not engage, ignore, ignore, ignore.
Rude behaviour and demands - Instantly doesn't get the item, so at the party leave instantly without the gift. On the way home remind her that she didn't get a gift because she was rude - if only she had said thank you nicely she would have a lovely present now, but because she shouted she is missing out.
In fact "missing out" was very effective for my DS. If you behave like X then you will miss out on Y. And follow through every time.
Demanding to be carried - ditto with the missing out. Be prepared to wait for as long as it takes (if at all possible), talk to DH or other DCs about how much you thought DD was looking forward doing something (watching a fav. TV programme, having a buble bath etc.) but that it looks like DD will be missing out again.

She needs to learn that the only person who loses out when she behaves likes this is her, you are indifferent to it (although a little sad that DD has missed out again). When she behaves nicely, praise her and remind her that because she behaved so well she will now be able to do something nice (open the gift, play with her friend whatever). Make sure that good behaviour gets her more attention than the bad behaviour.

It won't be an overnight fix, in the meantime work on her sleep routine so you are both less tired.

Explain to your DH your methodology, get him to use the same techniques. Then you are both working to help your DD.

Not read all of the thread - but, honestly, OP I would say that the situation I know best where the child does this, it is the parent's fault. I say that to be helpful even though it might be hard to take.

She cannot bear his tantums - it's almost as if she is hypersensitive to them. She has to shut them down as soon as she can which means giving him whatever he is demanding. She cannot bear to see him so emotional so she gives in to everything. As a result he is really hard to be with - wilful, spoilt, demanding - at least with her. I think he's probably a lot better when she's not there.

It's really not his fault. It's hers. I know why she does this (her own issues with feeling unloved as a child) but she's got it all muddled up. Disciplining your child is not the same as not loving them. Your child having a tantrum is not the same as your child being unhappy. I think the fact that you think the way DH talks is "intimidating" is revealing too. He's not intimidating her - he's showing her who's in charge. It's scary for a 3 year old to be in charge so actually it's a loving act to demonstrate to your 3 year old that you are in charge.

I'm also a big advocate of not feeding tantrums. Don't argue or discuss or plead or promise. You give a warning. You give another warning. Then you withdraw - either by disconnecting yourself and letting them carry on their tantrum somewhere safe but without an audience or you remove the both of you from the situation (by leaving the party).

Good luck and I hope you've had some useful perspectives. I saw you felt some posters were attacking your DD (but the thread is too long for me to see where). I'm sure she is lovely and has lots of positive traits but you know yourself this behaviour is a problem that's alienating people so good luck with getting on top of this.

I haven't read the whole thread but your daughter sounds very normal, but definitely needs for you to discipline her when she's badly behaved. My eldest was so difficult as a little one and I was really strict with him, whereas his sister was an easy baby and toddler and was therefore not disciplined much and she has turned out to be much harder work now they're a bit older. I think it's so important to have boundaries and be told no from when you're young.
Having said that, it's so hard to see the wood for the trees when you're in the thick of it and some children are just really hard work for a while. Make sure you get advice on how to deal with her and do it consistently but don't be too hard on yourself. It's easy to sort out and three can be such a hard age for some children.

Sorry, my first sentence sounded harsher than I meant it to!

I have friends who sound like how I am imagining you and your DH. The child will act out, the dad will try to discipline then mum undermines it by pandering to the child as if to make up for the telling off. Or worse interfere in him telling DC off. It results in a badly behaved child, who wants mum all the time as she is the soft touch, a dad who is angry and resentful at being undermined and a mum who is overwhelmed by it all and just thinks she has to go with having a 'spirited' child. The relationship isn't great with them as a result. I might be wrong but everything I have read points to a situation like this. You and your DH need to present a united front and agree on what to do. You need to be mum first, friend second. Don't be afraid of her. I think gentle parenting is going to create a generation of spoilt, entitled adults who can't survive without their parents.

DS1 wasn't ever one for tantrums or particularly bad behaviour. He knew what was expected most of the time and generally complied.

DS2 was an asscravat as soon as he hit 24 months and was the most wilful thing I ever met. We went to a playgroup from 2 months onwards and for a time I would dread it because he was such a swine. There were many, many times I had to tuck him under my arm like a rugby ball, march him to the car and sternly state "we're leaving" as I wrestled him into his car seat.

The main thing to practise is consistency. Have your expectations and rules set out in your mind before you reach that crisis-point so that when she behaves badly you're not shouting "no tv for a month" as a rash response. Know what the consequences will be for unwanted behaviour, know how you're going to praise any lovely or kind behaviour you witness and try to make sure she knows that you will reward the good rather than the bad.