Transing a 4 year old

[ShadowChancellor]

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

There is no Lady Brain
There is no Lady Dick

That's all

Mercy . Never a truer word was spoken.

Prawn will agree with me that there's no experience quite like being in a hall full of feminists, shouting along with the brilliant Magdalen Berns "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LESBIAN WITH A PENIS!"

I'm sorry but the parents of that four year old child are idiots.

There is no all encompassing definition as transgender.

Gender dysphoria is a real and crippling thing. Generally it is understood that it kicks in at puberty but I'm willing to believe it may kick in earlier (Fish).

It is located in exactly the same part of the brain that anorexia is.

We don't tell anorexics that by some fluke of biology it's a shame they haven't been born skeletal. We don't tell trans-able people that mother nature has done them a huge disservice by giving them four healthy limbs, and not letting them be born a quadriplegic.

The 'girls like princess dresses, boys like pirates' thing is a huge red herring. At least three quarters of the women on here know that their children (and they themselves) have flipped between gender norms and it means nothing.

This study showed absolutely no brain difference between adult transwomen and males. There was no 'freminisation' of their brain.

It DID show a difference in the trans-women that was located in the area of the brain connected to gender dysphoria ( and anorexia, - dissatisfaction with body parts/image) The study did not prove whether or not the gender dysphoria was innate, or simply a consequence produced because the subjects 'ruminated over their bodies'.

Personally I think it was already there because why ruminate for no reason?

It's a psychological issue. It is compounded because late transitioning males, who have autogynephilia, like to encourage the 'born in the wrong body' narrative from a very early age as it lends credence to the ideology.

No one is born in the wrong body. It's scientifically untenable. People have gender dysphoria and it should be treated with any means possible.

It does not mean that boys are girls, or men are women. You cannot change sex. And telling tiny children that they can is setting them up for a lifetime of confusion, medical intervention and misery. However they feel, they cannot change sex.

digest.bps.org.uk/2011/11/02/male-to-female-transsexuals-have-male-brains/

Something I have thought about a few times when this topic comes up is that young woman (Josie Cunningham?) who was publicly vilified for getting a boob job on the NHS. She could have been just as unhappy with her breasts as a trans person may be with their genitals (although body dysphoria is no longer required to class oneself as trans). She may have felt just as strongly that her body was wrong, and that the surgery was necessary to make her outside appearance match her internal feelings. Where was her show of support? Why was she not told she was brave for becoming her "true authentic self"?

Datun what a detailed and fascinating post. Thank you.

Datun - couldn's say it better.

I absolutely agree with everything you just said datun. There is legislation allowing it in scotland. It will be very damaging.

Wondering how the ratification of the Preventing and Combating Violence Against Women and Domestic Violence Bill will be handled when it is transwomen who are violent against a woman.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39082506

Love "there is no female brain, there is no female dick" super slogan.

Have you watched I am Jazz? I'm sure she was about 3 or 4 when she knew she was a girl and not a boy?

It's hard to decide without being in that position as the earlier it's caught (if that's the right phrase) then the easier it is to transition as I think it's hard to undo a lot of changes that happen at puberty. I could be wrong though

the earlier it's caught (if that's the right phrase) then the easier it is to transition as I think it's hard to undo a lot of changes that happen at puberty

You are correct. The problem is that with a desistance rate of about 80% after puberty you could potentially end up with a lot of people regretting what they have done to their body.

Also, transition is not reversible and not harm free.

And no-one knows yet the long term.impact in other parts of the body (eg the brain, of not going through puberty)

PeppaPig at that young age most children will have a very limited understanding of what it means to be a girl or a boy. Their understanding will be based on rigid stereotypes (much like transactivists). They have black and white thinking (much like transactivists). If a three year old boy says he is or should be a girl, chances are this is because he likes to play with things or wear things that he understands to be for girls.

It is like some very weird parallel universe. Presumably in scotland if you don't want to let your children trans before puberty for fear of permanent damage, your helpful and friendly named person will be able to put you on the naughty list for non compliance.

Mermaids is an appalling organization. They are a homophobic pressure group with no medical or scientific expertise. Their CEO flew her gay son to Thailand at 16 for genital surgery.

Mermaids wanted to be treated as experts in the recent case when a young child was removed from his mother's care because of her insistence that he was transgender. The judge gave them short shrift and was clearly unimpressed. Having had what appeared to be an organized barrage of Mermaids parents join MN to heckle the Feminist boards I entirely agree with the judge.

Speaking of appalling organisations.

This is a secondary school science resource from Gendered Intelligence, and this is a primary school resource. And these are the people who go into schools and talk to your children.

Oh, yes, Empress, that was a great day!

PeppaPig, you're right that if you block a child's puberty then the growth spurt, the changes in skeleton - broad shoulders, etc - and facial features that are typical of men just won't happen. That might be an advantage if a boy wants to grow up looking more feminine, but 80% of them will change their minds if left to go through puberty.

Puberty blockers sterilize children. If you don't go through puberty your gametes cannot mature. To make matters worse this will prevent the penis from reaching adult size. When you think how important this is for many men, it's a terrible thing to do to a boy who may change his mind. Even if he doesn't, these days SRS in adult men is done by inverting the penis. If the penis is still childlike there isn't enough tissue to do this, though doctors are looking into taking tissue from elsewhere.

Datun, that is so interesting.

It was on mainstream news today, but class="underline">Nir201403PhDthesis.pdf here is the scholarly article about apparently promising attempts to treat severe and treatment resistant anorexia with electronic brain stimulation as already somewhat more commonly used in Parkinson's Disease or other movement disorders.
I had no idea that similar, morphological issues are thought to be at play in gender dysphoria.

And yes, gender dysphoria is a horrible condition to be living with and any sufferer deserves all the specialist help they can get, I'd argue competent psychological help, not medication and surgery

Are there any other psychological disorders where an accepted treatment is to "become" the disordered thinking?

Links between body dysphoria and anorexia?

The transactivists are going to absolutely love that.

About puberty. It's not just the body that doesn't develop, it's the brain too. The child literally stays as a child. This is an article about how much brain development goes on in adolescence.

Empress the teen years are the years of greatest brain plasticity - it's prime neural pathway pruning and strengthening time.

It's why teens sometimes behave like toddlers...

Off the cuff, Wasn't it you who suggested sometime ago in here that you suspect some of this is driven by big pharma?

I have said that here, yes.

The fact that is that there is some serious money behind this agenda. Big pharma have representatives on many transgender advocacy group boards.

I think the situation is illuminated when you consider just how long it took for gay people to achieve civil rights. It took decades. And when you consider that a lot of people in positions of political and economic power were themselves gay, it makes you realise how long this sort of recognition and change process takes. If you take something like that Hiv/Aids crisis of the early 80s, it is even more stark. Thousands of people had to die before anything was done.

Yet, with transgenderism in children, the issue has exploded into the public consciousness and into public policy in a very short space of time. GDS was originally a condition that affected an extremely small minority of children even a few years ago, which even gender specialists admit.

So just how have we got here?

We've got here because some people are pumping extraordinary amounts of money into the agenda and message. The question is why? Who benefits?

I would guess it is because someone somewhere stands to make a shit load of money out of it.

I suspect in twenty or thirty years, the medical transing of children will be an enormous historical scandal on a par with the lobotomy and big tobacco scandals of the 20th century.

I am not a fan of Paris Lees but she was born a boy, went through puberty and didn't transition until an adult. She is not my favourite person in terms of some of the inappropriate things I think she says. But she does very much look like a woman. Thereby disproving the fear of puberty for trans women. Or proving that it doesn't need to make you look like a manly woman if you transition after puberty.

There are too many detransitioners coming out of the woodwork and getting together online for there not to be some big lawsuits in the near future I think

Italian I think Paris has had facial feminisation surgery. I didn't know why Paris bothered though cos their behaviour is 100% entitled white male and there's no disguising that