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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is DH too high-maintenance?

554 replies

anonymousother · 21/02/2017 10:20

I have no idea if IABU given the wider scheme of things.

Basically, DH is an extreme workaholic and I had to accept long ago that there's very little I can do about this because he becomes highly defensive and I feel out of my depth. He runs his own companies and has no concept of any division between work and family time, but again, this has become normal to me. Also I appreciate it facilitates our lifestyle, so can't really complain.

We have DS1 (12), DD1 (11) and DD2 (9).

My main AIBU is about DH's "moods" which can be quite volatile and very much influenced by frustrations at work, etc. At times, it seems like his mood fluctuates in line with the FT Index, it really does! So because he is so highly strung, I feel like I can't criticise him at all really. He doesn't take critcism well at all, unless I'm really careful. I also have had to compensate for his stress levels at home because I'm aware of the impact it could have on the DC. So basically, I do my best to keep him on an even-keel.

I tend to give him info about the DC on a "need to know basis" and choose a time when he is likely to be receptive. In contrast, he will almost daily want to offload about work to me and will expect me to drop everything at any given moment and give him my full attention for the duration. He gets annoyed, for instance, if he feels I'm not looking at him, even if I'm obviously in the middle of doing something else.

When he's stressed he tends to "nit -pick" about ridiculous things and it wears me down. For instance, yesterday he went on an 8 hour bike ride (one of his many hobbies) and as as he was on his way out he said to me, "There is dust in the top of that door frame" Hmm. Or this morning, DD1 was close to tears about going to school because her friend is being mean to her and it was the general bustle of trying to get 3 DC out the door - meanwhile, from him, it's "Where did you put xx shirt" (when it's in the wardrobe in front of his eyes) and "Did you not have time to do the windows?" and other pointless questions which feel like digs and could just wait.

I should add that the house is NOT dirty or a mess. I have a cleaner twice a week and I clean / tidy up in between. I never ask him to take any house related stuff on, but when he's in one of his moods he will find the one thing I forgot to do.

In contrast, I know DH would do anything for me. He's very kind and extremely generous, very affectionate, always tells me he loves me and so on. All my friends think he's fantastic.

AIBU because, on balance, I'm very fortunate. Should I continue to let a lot of things go over my head or should I start to challenge him more?

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 24/02/2017 17:28

but that's so perceptive

Just remember that simply because someone is 'damaged' it does not follow that we must accept 'damaging' behaviour from them. There comes a time in all of our lives where we must accept responsibility for our own behaviour and not say "Oh, I can't help that because.....". We acknowledge the damage done to us in our past, but we determine that we will not live a life repeating the mistakes of those who damaged us nor will we use that damage to justify our poor behaviour to others.

anonymousother · 24/02/2017 17:37

Mummy and AcrossthePond - I'm going into town to meet him shortly and feeling quite emotional. I need to take responsibility as well. I can't relate to myself as some sort of victim. The thread has been quite a shock. More than that, my kids come before anything else and I'd be devastated to think I was letting them down, in spite of all appearances and the best intentions.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 24/02/2017 18:04

Just remember that there is no 'law' that says you have to deal with a situation if you don't feel emotionally ready and intellectually prepared to deal with it. If you feel that you will not be able to 'present your case' to him or that you will become overly emotional, then perhaps now is not the time to deal with it. This realization that he is not treating you right and not respecting you as a person is very new to you. It may be that it needs to be examined more thoroughly by you so it 'sets in concrete' before you confront him. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you do talk to him today, be semi-prepared that he may make you feel 'silly' or 'unappreciative of how well you have it'. He may do this intentionally, or unintentionally. Either way, don't take his responses to heart as the incontrovertible truth. His object (as is yours) is to get your 'truth' across. He may just be better at that than you are right now. Remember that there is 'his truth', 'your truth', and 'the truth'. The object is to agree on the third of those.

Have you considered counseling?

anonymousother · 24/02/2017 18:40

Tbh, I had never considered counselling mainly because I suppose I would a bit self-indulgent. And it's easy to convince myself everything is great because there are many positives in my life I can focus on. Also, I would need to lie to DH about going, otherwise there's no point because he would want to know why.

In a taxi now. Thanks for advice - you sound like a counsellor. I just need things to shape up in my mind probably. I'm not sure where we're going tonight, it might be the theatre or something anyway. I'm very grateful thankyou.

OP posts:
JustDanceAddict · 24/02/2017 19:37

If that was my dh - who also runs his own business - I would tell him to dust the door himself on the way out and change the locks before he gets back. Seriously, he does sound like an entitled wanker. Can you go back to work to get some self-esteem back or volunteer or do something to get independence.

Mummyoflittledragon · 24/02/2017 21:22

There is no reason to see yourself as some sort of victim. Because you're not. You're muddling through in a tough situation. You don't have to be in dire straights or be massively messed up to seek help. For me, counselling isn't self indulgent. It was actually much harder to carry on and kid myself about things before I sought help. Now I see counselling as part of looking after myself, protecting and honouring me. And now that I am really properly look after myself, then I'm available to properly look after my child and to be very much there for my husband. Most of us don't seek help unless there's a crisis. Myself included. Seeking help is brave. You've done it on here. And you can choose whether or not to seek more help elsewhere.

I hope it went well this evening.

AcrossthePond55 · 24/02/2017 21:58

I'm not a counselor, I'm just old and have seen and been through a lot.

I'm saying this gently. You shouldn't have to lie to a partner about being unhappy. You shouldn't have to lie about doing something to stop being unhappy. Above all else, our partner in life should want us to be happy and should be willing to support us in the pursuit of that happiness. Why do you think your DH wouldn't be supportive? If I were to tell my DH that I wanted to go to counseling, he would be supportive no matter what the reason (or lack of). And vice versa. I suppose either one of us might think "Gosh, I hope it's not me!" but we would still keep our peace until the other was ready to talk or had worked the issue out.

Counseling isn't self-indulgent at all. It's 'exercising the mind' to find answers in the same way that going to the gym is 'exercising the body' to lose weight.

Anyway, I hope all goes well this evening.

TheQuestingVole · 24/02/2017 23:40

Just from your opening post I thought 'this sounds exactly like what my boss would be like at home.' He's an extremely charming workaholic whose anxiety and perfectionism has to be constantly managed by everyone around him - oh, and he's divorced.

GoodLuckTime · 25/02/2017 00:43

OP I've dipped in and out of your thread since the start. Not had a chance to post before, and haven't read the full 20 pages.

Agree with PPosters, though, that counselling for you, to work out who you are and what you want now seems the best place to start.

I also wanted to suggest that you start to reflect a bit more critically (or maybe better, analytically) about the roles you and your husband have fallen into.

This may also be a 'safer' route into discussions with him, too.

It sounds like you've fallen into very gender roles on the surface. And on your side, as you have a lot of material trappings, you've assumed this must be great. But you're starting to wonder. Is jewellery or a glitzy night out all there is? Is that a replacement, or better than your DH taking a real and respectful interest in you? Those are questions for you.

My DH also works in finance. He's not as successful as your DH by the sound of it, but also gets pulled in by the hours and demands of that world. However, I have always taken, and encourage him to take a critical / analytical view of that world.

The trouble is finance seeks out / attracts a certain personality type: high achieving but fundamentally controlling / insecure. Your DH sounds like this. Mine can be too. That world has worked out how to play these characters to get the most out of them: the pay structure, the working environment, the internal sector perception all sucks them in. So you're paid well, but you're always chasing that discretionary, elusive bonus. How they are awarded is completely opaque. You believe others do better, if only you work harder you will too. Those just above you appear to be doing immeasurably better. Although you're well paid, you dream of being better paid. Office politics are hideous, bitchy, back stabbing, deceitful. Everyone has been fired at last once and fears it (despite the pay off).

Work comes before everything, only losers take family time / leave the blackberry behind, don't answer work emails.

I've always thought if you calculated hourly rate city pay scales wouldn't looks that good. As a group, they've somehow got sucked into giving up every aspect of personal or private time in return for more money. You could restructure, double the work force, half the pay, stop everyone working evenings / weekends / holidays / through the night and people overall would be much happier.

The trouble is they all believe this is the pinnacle of their achievement. That they are a global elite, that it doesn't get any better. And then you start building a life on that: that statement house, the wife, the kids, the private schools. It's an expensive way to live, so you feel you HAVE to stay in to fund it. Fundamentally and deep down, you don't believe your wife or kids would love you if you left. You tnkg your a synonymous with what you can bring in, just like you are at work.

It's a horrible horrible ,world op, it really is. I think it is the dark beating bullshit mirage heart of the patriarchy.

This doesn't excuse your DHs behaviour but it is part of the answer. These men are told they've achieved the pinnacle of modern masculinity by doing what they do.

At least at first, it's not easy for them to see through that myth. And he's brought your into that myth with the trappings he assumes you want.

It's the myth of capitalism is that is sold to us all the time. You are living a real life version of it.

But In the end it isn't very fulfilling. And as you are asking, where does it end? When has he earned enough? When is the house big enough, the diamond bright enough? It sounds like he's so caught up in the striving striving for the next deal, payout, bonus that he's never (dared?) to stop and reflect on all this.

Have your read the Top Five Regrets of the Dying? If not, suggest you google it. Check out number 2. What, in the end really matters to you? To your DH?

Having said that, my guess I'd your DH feels the burden and pressure of being the sole earner, even as he enjoys it. Think many solo WOH parents do, but this can be underplayed on mumsnet as they are often men. I'm not saying you should get a job. But rather your DH sounds like he's under a lot of pressure and that he doesn't even realise how he creates most of that himself.

My guess is when you start to question things, he may well panic, at least at first. And freak it for fear you are about to tear down all he has achieved / seek to screw him in the divorce (big fear among city men).

I know my DH can, and we've had a different dynamic, where I have encouraged him to see though the bullshit of the finance world, from the start.

I've also influenced out life choices to dial down the pressure: I resisted buying the big statement dream house, for example, which would drive him to work like a nutter to pay for it. I also work in a well paid role in a different industry. So although I earn less than DH it's about a 3:2 ratio. And I have better working conditions, less cut throat behaviour. So I constantly hold up to DH that these things are shitty and unacceptable, rather than standard and the way of the world.

He's in a slightly better environment now but is starting to worry he's stuck in a rut etc. I encourage him to think again: come home earlier if he's bored, to spend more time with our children while they are young. Take all his holiday and don't then spend half of it working.

When I went back to work after Dc1 DH took a days holiday once a week for six months to care for her, so she was only in child care three days a week. He said airily he'd do something like that, but I had to really be firm to make it happen. He freaked out about clearing it with his boss etc. I was asking him to not just challenge but to live against the gender stereotype and it was very hard for him as a naturally conformer. But he did it for me and it as brilliant for us as a family.

Things can change, but it won't happen overnight.

Mummyoflittledragon · 25/02/2017 05:34

GoodLuck. What an amazing post. You sound like a formidable team!

anonymousother · 25/02/2017 09:34

Goodluck - that is an incredible post. I can relate to every word but could no way have articulated it like that.

The irony is DH is not actually materialistic at all. It's a kind of fear that drives him but I don't understand it. These days he says he wants to make a 'generational change', but where do you draw the line and it's meaningless if you can't enjoy the life you actually have and take stock while you still have your health.

I've always tried to balance him out. We've survived this far. I've seen other marriages fall apart due to alcoholism or affairs or whatever. I know how easily things can slip away.

Mummy - thankyou for your perspective on counselling and AcrossthePond, I love the idea that it's 'exercising the mind'.

We were at the ballet last night and I just wanted to enjoy that. Then we ended up eating late and I had this Japanese cocktail which knocked me out. He was saying he's sorry he's going to be away so much and will I be ok? He's going to Uganda about a charity they're involved in, but I'm pleased about that because it will do him good. He's also cycling more or less the length of Italy starting next weekend. I actually don't mind having some space though at the moment.

He has gone to karate with DS. He took the dog out early and brought me back a coffee in bed! He said thankyou to me for having sorted his kit and told DS to thank me as well. I feel he knows something is going on with me,

I can't put everything into words but I am very grateful. Thankyou!

OP posts:
ShowMePotatoSalad · 25/02/2017 09:38

He sounds nasty, and a really bad example to your children. There's more to life than earning vast sums of money. Also, plenty of people manage to run businesses without treating their spouses like an emotional punching bag and a servant.

Parker231 · 25/02/2017 09:45

Doesn't sound like he is at home very much or a part of the family. You keep mentioning that you don't mind him being away as it will do him good - why does he need all these breaks from the real world. He doesn't seem to be in touch with reality. He'll regret it in the future when he doesn't know his children and you and them are not at part of his life.

GoodLuckTime · 25/02/2017 11:48

OP I agree it sounds like a good thing he's due to be away. It will give you time to reflect and gather your thoughts.

As others have said, it sounds in your early posts like you've lost yourself a bit. What do you really want, now? What would you like to be different? What would you give up? If he had a road to Damascus moment, and wanted to sell up, move somewhere chooser and, say, run a cafe, would you be up for that? (Though I don't think change what's to be that dramatic).

My DH used to mourn an alternative career in medicine. Felt his parents has pushed him toward business and finance (which they did ).

I called him out on that a few years ago. Pointed out that, if he really wanted to he could go and retrain as doctor. That in his late 30s as he was then, that would still give him a good 30 years plus of a different career, that we had the resources to make it happen, that I would support that if it was what he really wanted, though we'd have to downsize, leave London, ditch a lot of trappings.

He reflected and decided he didn't, really. Asking him to face up to it has made him own his choices better.

ANYWAY if you are ready, I would consider broaching this while your DH is away. I'd write or email him. It will enable you to articulate clearly what you really want to say, and include reassurance that you love him, and it's not a threat, and give him space and time to reflect on it, rather than panicking when he first realises you are serious.

A few years ago, when DH was still my boyfriend and we were talking about moving in together, his bank gave him a low bonus. He was very disappointed and he knew this meant he'd have to leave soon, before they fired him. We talked around that for a while, I encouraged him to see the upsides, it was a horrible environment, he didn't think he'd progress there anyway.

He still sounded really down and he started apologising to me. I told him he had nothing to apologise for and he said 'but I wanted to buy you a house'

Honestly, I think part of him feared I would dump him as a result.

We then when on to have quite an important and profound conversation where I reassured him that I loved him for 100 reasons and none of them were about the size of s bonus. That I wanted us to build a life together that worked for both of us, not that he carried alone. That I wanted his time and love, not his money.

I don't think he always finds living at the sharp end of feminism fun. He can come out with some bullshit stuff about wife work (dusting etc) too. At which point I remind him he is very welcome to ditch me and find a trophy wife who if that's what he'd prefer. So far, he doesn't!

GoodLuckTime · 25/02/2017 11:49

Meant to day, DH and I often conduct our most important discussions in writing. It brings a slower pace and more consideration from both sides. Can work really well.

haveacupoftea · 25/02/2017 12:01

Loads of posts delving into his behavior and basically making excuses for why he acts so terribly, as if he is a different breed of human because he had a difficult childhood and is a high earner.

He isn't. He treats you like shit because you let him get away with it. You need to value your own opinions, open your mouth and voice them!

thatdearoctopus · 25/02/2017 12:18

Some really insightful posts here, but I'm afraid my only contribution is to express how outraged I would be if anyone, let alone my dh, told me to "just tell me the conclusion to this first so I know where you're going with it".
How UNBELIEVABLY rude and dismissive!!!!! I would be hard-pressed not to smack something heavy over their head.

Orangetoffee · 25/02/2017 12:23

I think him being away so much is why you are still with him, it's giving you breathing space and you can relax knowing you don't have to pamper to his moods, give him your full attention, walk on egg shells and sort out his kit.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/02/2017 14:39

There are many insightful posts on this thread. I work in the City and have lost evenings and weekends dealing with win at all costs hedge fund types. I made a conscious decision to avoid getting sucked in to that way of thinking because work becomes all consuming. My job is what I do not who I am. I suspect your DH's sense of self is very tied to the work he does. His job what gives him a sense of worth and his identity. The hard thing is getting him to recognise his work is only one part of who he is.

One thing you can do is work out who you are. You are not an extension of him or of your children but a separate person. What is your identity? What gives you a sense of purpose and fulfilment? What are your needs and how are they being met? What are your goals and dreams?

AcrossthePond55 · 25/02/2017 15:20

Use his time away to see a counselor. Use it to reflect on what you wanted from your life when you first married him and where you are now. How far apart are those two? And I don't mean "I wanted to be a SAHM" or "I wanted a big house". I'm talking about what you wanted as emotional fulfillment in your life, what you expected your emotional life with your DH to be.

Arkengarthdale · 25/02/2017 17:15

I too am staggered and shocked at the instruction to tell him the conclusion will be at the beginning of a chat. It sounds as though he will then choose whether he can be bothered to listen or not. That is massively, hugely rude and disrespectful. And again it's all about him and not in the slightest about you. I live with someone who was taught by his family to tune women out as his mum was a relentless prattler and everyone in the family (all men) use ignored her. He still forgets to listen to me at times and it damages my regard for him because it makes me feel I'm not worth listening to. You appear to live this day in, day out - that your opinion doesn't count. Someone up thread mentioned your passivity - I agree. You've been taught that you are less important.

Mummyoflittledragon · 25/02/2017 17:24

*Meant to say, DH and I often conduct our most important discussions in writing."

I used to do this lots with dh. Still do sometimes. I agree it brings a slower pace and prevents my dh from talking over me or dismissing what I'm saying.

I also agree you've lost a certain amount of yourself and need to find yourself again. This is an entirely normal process of having children, I believe and you have your dh on top of this. My current therapist is amazing. Before I started seeing her, I was pretty lost. Even though I'd had plenty of counselling, I still didn't know a lot about who I was and what I wanted and liked. If you are so completely subjugated and disregarded by another human being as I was by my mother and to a large extent my father, it is very difficult to find a sense of self. I'm glad my posts and others have been helpful. Smile

anonymousother · 25/02/2017 18:12

Thankyou and I agree with what everyone seems to be saying actually, that I have lost myself to some extent. I think its a natural consequence of children in a way. I don't know if my posts sound passive. I've felt a bit numb by some of the feedback. People have been so kind to post. I can't believe it actually and I want to reply as honestly as I can, but its been a bit hard sometimes.
I thought I would get responses like, "Oh he's stressed out. You're a SAHM so what are you moaning about. Take a family holiday" etc.
I feel like I never really had a proper career. I did a degree in Modern Languages and after uni travelled around Asia for a year. I did that on my own. I was independent in that way. I also taught English in Pakistan for a while. Then when I came back to London I was looking for jobs / thinking about teaching, but unexpectedly got a role in a ballet production which I decided to take because the opportunity had presented itself. I was on another contract when I met DH. After about a year he had proposed and wanted me to go to NYC with him, which I did as my contract was ending anyway. So it was all quite quick and I didn't have a visa to work over there. When we came back I became pregnant with DS and DH went into business independently and it all went from there. 2 more DC and now I'm 39!
I've loved being with the kids and no regrets there whatsoever. But I don't have a career to falll back on as such because obviously a dance career has a shelf life and I'm well past that!
There hasn't really felt like I've had the space between the DC and DH to explore anything else. It was never going to be the kind of 50/50 relationship in terms of childcare etc that people talk about in MN, because DH is just not that type. I didn't want to leave the DC with anyone else, especially as I didn't have to. Even if I had gone to work, our earnings would have been so wildly disproportionate it wouldn't have made practical or financial sense. As time went on, things have obviously become more entrenched.

Sorry can't remember what my point was going to be Blush but I'll just post this anyway.

OP posts:
anonymousother · 25/02/2017 18:18

Also (just while he's out), I have reread some of my posts and I do sound passive. I definitely think a few counselling sessions can't hurt, so will look into it.
Also, I'm going away for the weekend with some friends and we just organised this today. We will go in May so DH has time to make his plans!
Thankyou so much again!

OP posts:
Parker231 · 25/02/2017 18:57

You definitely are passive and I'm shocked at him instructuring you to tell him what the conclusion will be at the beginning of a chat. You have such any uneven relationship - it isn't a partnership. I've just read DH the comment about the chat and he was amazed that a DH would do that to his wife/partner. Thankfully I know that DH wouldn't ever do that nor would he accept information about the DC's being drip feed to him - he would be hurt as he is their father and as he loves them and has always jointly shared the responsibility for their lives.