To think friends are being over-senstive?

[pomadas87]

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?!

However I dont agree that it is racist to state you hold an affection for a particular group/nation/race (although saying the reverse is probably racist - eg I love the Irish v I hate the Irish)

Yes belu I think that was where the colonial remark was aimed. Because I generally like Irish people, on the whole, based on the irish people I have met..... and I happen to have spent my childhood in england.

Thanks sonyays that indeed what I meant and it wasn't a leading question at all Mahdea, in fact I don't see how it could be

Glad we sorted that out belu!

In terms of a leading question, it had the sort of phrasing that sets a trap if answered at face value (as in "when did you stop beating your wife?"). So answering "I love English people as a race!" or "I don't like English people as a race!" can both be met with the response that it's pretty racist to have preconceived notions about any group of people like that. It's a pretty common device here on MN and elsewhere online, but if you didn't intend it that way then fair enough

My opinion of Irish people has been elevated even further by lots of irish people helping me out a bit when things have got nasty on here.

Wow, they need to chill

Well I like irish people!!!

It is a fact!!!!

If you have some nasty shitty view of me as some sort of colonising twat head because of that then you are the exception to the rule and I like all irish people except for you.

That has probably balanced it out a bit

Is that better?

ONG Bravo!!!!!👍👍

Maybe it will help them. I don't think they wanted me to like them anyway... in fact I think it must have been scary for them that I liked them as thought I was a dangerous oppressor of irish people. Shame really

"as a minimum I would suggest calling countries, in general, their actual name instead of whatever you prefer. "

Many countries have a full name and a short name and both are acceptable. For example Belgium is also the Kingdom of Belgium, France is also The French Republic. You can't blame people for thinking both Republic of Ireland and Ireland were possible, especially when Ireland can also refer to the whole island.

Bear in mind how the country's named on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland

Still like all the other irish people :)

It is bollocks to claim you have a completely blank view of somewhere. So I am not going to claim I do as it is wankerish.

It's really, really not.

Assuming a particular group of people will have much the same mix of good, bad and indifferent individuals as everywhere else = normal.

Assuming a particular group of people are all nice and lovely and friendly = really othering and still a shitty form of stereotyping that depersonalises individuals within that group.

If you don't believe me, try:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/17456916155880911*
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-positive-stereotypes-still-badd*
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/oliver-burkemans-blog/2012/dec/12/stereotypes-bad-even-when-goodd*

Ok, well I have established I don't like you much and you are irish so what is the problem.

You should be proud... you have fixed my problem with generally liking all irish people.

Yes, you don't seem to like it when someone uses evidence-based arguments against your assertions, do you?

I have responded to everyone politely but I have called out unacceptable behaviour when I saw it. If your response to that is to tell me you don't like me rather than modify your behaviour, it's entirely up to you, but it doesn't reflect well on you.

Dear everyone who identifies as Irish,

I start off with the assumption I will probably like you, because I have very rarely come accross people who I do not like that are Irish. I also like to start off with that view of people in general.

Please do not assume that the views of certain people I have met on mumsnet will in any way cast you in a negative light. The way I think of people once I have met them can only be changed by their own behaviour.

Kind regards,

OMG

Evidence based=the guardian?

OMG you seem a very nice human being. I think I would like you as a friend in rl.

there are some vey nasty comments on here and I am truly shocked at Sugarlump.😲

Irish people are loved all over the world, the English, not so much... I wonder why!

Well aren't you quite the little bigot

Evidence-based = the journal article linked first.

Listen, I have it solved ok.

OP was a bit of a dope to say it
Their friends also dopes with their baby comments.
Both wrongs cancel each other out. DONE!

Ireland is fucking brilliant
England is fucking brilliant
Scotland is fucking brilliant
Wales is fucking brilliant
France is is fucking brilliant
North Korea....not so much

I would report sugarlump's post but think it should stand as a shocking lesson as to how some people behave on mnet

Cheers belu I don't allow private messages, but i'll check and see if you do and get in touch :)
I don't always get much better treatment in scotland from people with similar ideology, but you can't change the world I guess.
Just try and be nice to people, some people can't get over one thing... you sound english. When I discover that I tend to ignore them

sugarlump that's uncalled for and attitudes like that help no-one. (And I case you're wondering, yes I'm Irish).