To think friends are being over-senstive?

[pomadas87]

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?!

I won't use it ever again and am not justifying it, but it must have been shit for my father in law to be called something which obviously had such negative connotations and his father and father before him

If it was his actual name, that is a completely different thing. It has negative connotations when used when it isn't someones name.

Couldn't you just use Ireland and Northern Ireland, as they are the actual names? It's not difficult!

Jesus. I'm absolutely shocked with some of the things people who claim to be Irish are coming out with on this thread. Especially someone from Cork.

Calling them 'Ireland' and 'Northern Ireland' is really offensive to a lot of people as the whole island is Ireland and to suggest that NI is not part of 'Ireland' would be very, very offensive to anyone with even slightly Republican tendencies.

The ROI uses the name Ireland because the 1937 constitution of Ireland supported a claim to the right of power for the Dublin government in the the whole island of Ireland and not just the republic. The name reflected that and therefore referred to the entire island which was according to that constitution rightfully part of a united self ruling independent Ireland.

So it's completely incorrect to refer to the republic as 'Ireland' and the North as 'Northern Ireland'. Because that name, even in it's official use, refers to the entire island of Ireland.

Calling them 'Ireland' and 'Northern Ireland' is really offensive to a lot of people as the whole island is Ireland and to suggest that NI is not part of 'Ireland' would be very, very offensive to anyone with even slightly Republican tendencies

This is utter utter bullshit. It is the equivalent of telling everyone they shouldn't call Spain Spain in case Catalan separatists are offended. Pretty sure we know what you call Spain though.

That is the stupidest comment I've ever seen on here. EVERY SINGLE PERSON in Ireland calls the country Ireland, because that is its fecking name. It is the legal name, it is in the CONSTITUTION.

If you're seriously suggesting that it isn't the normal, every day name that everyone uses and should use, you need help.

Not to mention the unbeliveable twattiness of telling people from a country that you know better than them what their country is called.

Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937, provides that "[t]he name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland".[3] Hence, the Irish state has two official names, Éire (in Irish) and Ireland (in English). For official purposes, including in international treaties and other legal documents, and where the language of the documents is English, the Irish government uses the name Ireland. The same is true in respect of the name Éire for documents written in Irish. Similarly, the name of the state is reflected in its institutions and public offices. For example, there is a President of Ireland and a Constitution of Ireland. The name Ireland is also used in the state's diplomatic relations with foreign nations and at meetings of the United Nations,[4] European Union,[5] Council of Europe,[6] International Monetary Fund,[7] and Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.[8]

Seriously. This place is full of fools!

Fair play lads, this is probably the biggest tangent one of these threads ever went on before so congrats.

Oh and I see we have a fellow corkonian! Go on ya langer!!!!!

Obviously we're from the Peoples Republic of Cork, but will you please tell the amadán above what we ALL call the country?

For the record. I am fully in support of the union as it stands, unless most people in northern Ireland did not want to be in it.... i am upset with the position in scotland because the referendum was 2014 where the decision was made and the scottish government want to have another one and i feel it is unsettling and undemocratic to reject an opinion made recently when polls show no appetite for another.
I just think when you say ireland people (certainly outside of ireland) automatically think of the whole island.
If you say the Republic of Ireland then people immediately know what you are talking about, as they do when you say northern Ireland. It helps "english people" "scottish people" and "Welsh people" and just about everybody else not to "cunfuse" what people mean when they are off to ireland on holiday. If you say you are off to ireland they often ask which bit.... meaning do you mean northern Ireland or are you going to a foreign country. ( I have not noticed english people being any more "confused" than other people I know)

If you say you are off to ireland they often ask which bit.... meaning do you mean northern Ireland or are you going to a foreign country

Which is exactly why I am telling you all that the name of the country is IRELAND so that you will all be less confused. You're welcome.

If they ask which bit, tell them Cork.

Haha no thanks. Might steer clear of Cork now just kidding.

Please understand that is simply a description used outside of ireland to help people to avoid confusion. It is not a slur or anything nasty, just a description which can not be confused for anything else.

Please understand that it is the fact that there is confusion at all which is the problem. It's practically the nearest country to you and you don't even know the name of it, and need modifiers to explain to each other whether you are going to a foreign country or another bit of your own country.
It's rude.

Tinsel...

"It's actually a good demonstration of why a word is less okay coming from an english person"

THIS is exactly what I have told you about upthread.

If a joke is offensive... it is offensive. It is not more offensive because of the nationality of the person who says it. I find that racist.

If for example an Irish person made a joke about Brighton. .. I wouldn't find it funny, but I would be offended by a scottish person doing so, a Welsh person doing so and a French person doing so in equal measures.

In reacting to all english people in a more negative light, would be the same as me judging all irish people in the same light.

I have told you is is not ok, but I understand that these views are so inbuilt in some people that they may never be able to shake them off. It does taint my view of you though tinsel..... that is all I am saying.

Please understand that this confusion only arises in Britain, which is why it's a problem and considered rather rude. Every other part of the world outside Ireland, regardless of language, has no problem with the labels: Ireland and Northern Ireland.

" It helps "english people" "scottish people" and "Welsh people" and just about everybody else not to "cunfuse" what people mean when they are off to ireland on holiday. If you say you are off to ireland they often ask which bit"

As a Welsh person, if someone told me they were going on holiday to Ireland, I would assume the Republic. However, there are clearly times when Ireland could refer to either or both as both the Republic and Northern Ireland are part of the geographical island of Ireland. There are also differences in sports as I understand that the rugby team is for the whole or the island whereas football isn't. I don't think you can blame people for being confused sometimes.

I am sorry Cork if you find it upsetting. I truly do not wish to offend

Cheers gwen

"Every other part of the world outside Ireland, regardless of language, has no problem with the labels: Ireland and Northern Ireland."

That's just not true. Which other countries have you lived in?

If a joke is offensive... it is offensive. It is not more offensive because of the nationality of the person who says it. I find that racist

It doesn't matter what you find it. It's the same everywhere, if a Belgian makes a joke and Belgium, its not offensive, when a Frenchman makes a joke about Belgium/Belgians it is much more likely to be seen as offensive.

If your friend makes a joke about you its less off than if a stranger does.

This is not news to anyone.

And its just basic manners to call a country what it is actually called, not some other description that you prefer.

Yep it's bollocks gwen, but that sort of ideology is helpful for individuals who want to stir up negative feeling.

I've never said people should not take the piss out of themselves. If they want to it is ok.
But.... it is not ok to react differently towarda a person because they are from a specific country and it to be ok for absolutely everyone else.

English people could "justify" the same towards irish people for the actions of a few in the past.

I would not accept it and would be very upset If they did.

English people could "justify" the same towards irish people for the actions of a few in the past

See now you're just getting quite offensive again. What exactly have the Irish ever done to the English? Unless I missed the part where we invaded your country, kept it for hundreds of years, stole your land, impoverished and starved your native peoples, purposefully destroyed your language and culture, and caused the deaths and emigration of millions of people?

I do not blame all Irish people for the IRA

I do not expect all Irish people to blame all english people for the ruling classes of england, who were not that great for English people either.

There have been actions within England by the IRA. Very serious ones too, but unless you are a total TWAT you would not blame all irish people for those actions.

"It's actually a good demonstration of why a word is less okay coming from an english person

the slang "Mick" in England = thick unreliable drunk trouble Irish worker
"Micky" in Ireland = Willie
So "take the Mick" in Ireland = act the willy
"take the Mick" in England = don't hire an Irish perons, they'll rip you off or not turn up!"

^^ Actually a lot of English people use it in the 'Irish' way. Not least because a lot of us are descendants from Irish immigrants like me.

So where do those of us with Irish ancestry fit? I'm English but my great grandparents were the very people driven from their homes by starvation due to English oppression. Do I get to use phrases like 'Irish twins'? Can I use it and then be angry at myself?

Exactly stumbly monkey. CerTain ly loads of my friends had irsh heritage and I really have not noticed anti irish sentiment in england, quite the opposite actually.
Have noticed it in scotland due to problems with sectarianism., but nobody seems to have a problem with the Scots in general terms... thank god because most people are very nice ( only a few arseholes)

Go on stumbly monkey get yourself a complex like me... nothing like feeling like you might be racist.... by accident!

And we're back to trying to justify the use of negative stereotypes.

Look its simple enough, you can say whatever you like. You can use whatever terms you want, you can call other people countries by your choice instead of theirs, whatever you like. It's a free ish world.

Just know that some other people will be thinking you're a bit of a gobshite when you do. That's all there is to it.