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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think friends are being over-senstive?

999 replies

pomadas87 · 20/02/2017 18:51

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid Grin why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?! Confused

OP posts:
OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 13:26

Not justifying, and I stopped using the other terms when I found out their origins.

I suspect taking the mickey was a phrase adopted rather than a slur though. I do not feel that it is acceptible to completely shut off and prevent the usage of all colloquialisms with percieved connections to irish people without being sure that they had origins of hatred. I was going to stop using it but have changed my mind.
This is one I will continue to use until I am sure that.it had origins of hatred, because cleansing the south east england of any shared language with irish people is as bad as denying irish people in england their place in its history.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 13:29

It is like saying... we don't want you...or your expressions.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 13:32

People are welcome to think I am a gobshite Grin another word I suspect (could be wrong) came over from ireland which I use all the time. Not to take the piss though, just because it is an awesome word!

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 13:49

This is one I will continue to use until I am sure that.it had origins of hatred

So you know that it quite likely to have very negative origins, but you're going to keep using it until it can be absolutely proved, which isn't possible.

Well, it's a position, I suppose.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 14:01

Yes it is. I think it is shared language rather than derogatory. I do not believe that taking the mickey is meant as a slur and do not think it is likely.

Many families in the south east have irish origins. I know lots of people with irish heritage who have done great things in england. I have known many irish people who use the same phrase. It is normal to pick up phrases from friends. I do not wish to remove the sayings and phrases their ancestors brought with them. It would be denying people the right to influence the place they made home.

I am not going to stop using it. I think if we stop using that we really have fallen in to the "it's pc gone mad" category.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 14:08

Use whatever expressions you like. But as a minimum I would suggest calling countries, in general, their actual name instead of whatever you prefer.
English people are big into manners, aren't they?

MarDhea · 26/02/2017 14:26

"Every other part of the world outside Ireland, regardless of language, has no problem with the labels: Ireland and Northern Ireland."

That's just not true. Which other countries have you lived in?

Between DP and I, we have lived in 7 different countries across 3 continents. I'm not going to list them because it's an unusual mix of places and could be identifying. Why? Where have you lived?

My point doesn't come (solely) from personal experience. What clinches it for me is my friend who works in the post office in Ireland, for whom this is a pet topic. Post arrives from all over the world with "Ireland" as the country at the bottom. A very small number come marked "Republic of Ireland", "RoI", or similar, and these items almost all come from the UK (based on the return address). If the country's name is also given in another language (Irlanda, Ирландия, etc.), it's invariably of the form "Ireland" and not a "Republic of..." version. In other words, people in other countries are happy to use Ireland as the label for Ireland, but there are a few folk primarily in the UK who use RoI.

As for Northern Ireland, my friend in the Irish post office encounters a small but regular volume of mail that is labelled "Ireland" but has a NI address and postcode. These items all (to her recollection) originate in England, Scotland, or Wales and hence don't even need a country name (i.e., the postcode would be enough) but if they have a country label it should be "Northern Ireland". The Irish PO redirects them to NI. There is also a small volume of mail that is correctly labelled "Ireland" and is destined for an address in Ireland rather than NI, but ends up in Belfast. Again, these items pretty much all originate in England, Scotland, or Wales, and have been mis-sorted into international rather than domestic mail. The NI PO redirects them. (You'd think the domestic vs. international postage would help in these cases, but apparently there are errors there too). In other words, although it doesn't happen often, there is sometimes confusion between the labels of "Ireland" and "Northern Ireland" when both addressing and sorting mail, and when it happens it overwhelmingly comes from Britain rather than any other countries.

So unless someone has better evidence, I'm going to stand by my assertion that every other part of the world has no problem with the labels of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 14:31

I agree. Plus anyone I've met who wasn't fully cognisant was always happy to have it explained to them and then be able to use the names properly. Only British people have ever said "Oh is that the actual name, never mind, I'm happy to use this different one instead" like the poster above.

MarDhea · 26/02/2017 14:41

only My mate also says she often sees post addressed to "People's Republic of Cork" Grin

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 14:44

Well boy where else would the post be going, only the one and only Peoples Republic, the true capital!

waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/02/19/government-calls-corks-bluff-forcing-it-to-secede-from-ireland/

MarDhea · 26/02/2017 15:00

cleansing the south east england of any shared language with irish people is as bad as denying irish people in england their place in its history.

No.

It's a massive straw man, as I'm sure you know. If members of a particular cultural or ethnic group ask you not to use certain phrases because their racist origin means some people find them upsetting and offensive, then the decent thing is to desist.

There is an enormous numberr* of words and phrases in the English language of Irish origin that everyone may use as they like. To insist on using the dubious few in the face of requests not to is... odd.

belu1 · 26/02/2017 15:15

Blomy there seems to be a lot of hate against the English on this thread

belu1 · 26/02/2017 15:16

'Blimey' I mean

MarDhea · 26/02/2017 15:23

Really belu? Can you point to a specific example?

It's a long thread so I may have missed something, but if you point to a post I'll be happy to report it.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 15:44

I don't see any. Just people pointing out that if your ancestors were massive dicks to other peoples ancestors, you might want to not use negative stereotypes about those other people, and get the name of their country right.

That's not hatred, is it?

belu1 · 26/02/2017 15:53

There are undertones of hatred but thats ok. Im just a little bit bemused by it, that's all. However sticks and stones and all that 😁

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 15:54

Please don't tell other people that they feel hatred. It's twatty.

belu1 · 26/02/2017 15:59

The onlyliving boy - I ❤️ you😘

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 16:49

Well I like Irish people. There is not even a tiny bit of dislike there I'm afraid. Sorry to disappoint you only boy ❤❤❤ people took the piss out of me earlier for my positive stereotyping, which I admit to.
It does look rather like hate towards all english people from certain posters.
Please do not report them belu. I think it is important that people get to read the thread if future. Might even be an eye opener and challenge long held views in some cases.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 17:04

The thing is when people call it the republic they are just trying to be clear about which bit, not trying to be rude.
My scottish auntie calls england "Englandshire" it's her way of trying to belittle england. I just think she is being Twattish. It doesn't make me angry.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 26/02/2017 17:06

I also do not allow it to taint my view of other scottish people.

belu1 · 26/02/2017 17:18

'Englandshire' - I love that 😁

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 26/02/2017 17:19

Well I like Irish people. There is not even a tiny bit of dislike there I'm afraid

All of us? That's quite weird. I mean I know we're probably all the same to you but we do have differences.

MarDhea · 26/02/2017 17:28

Don't be coy, OMG - which posters are showing hatred?

belu1 · 26/02/2017 17:44

Do you like English people as a race, MarDhea?