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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To dare speak about Vaxxed on MN?

496 replies

thegoodfight · 20/02/2017 14:37

NC for this but a regular.

So I've just watched the documentary Vaxxed. I know how vaccine threads unfold on MN, so I'm ready to be told IABU however I feel like everyone should see this whatever your views - it's about the cover up around studies into autism and MMR

There is an admission from a CDC insider that he worked on the study and hid data which proved a link (a strong an quite frankly astounding one) and the data was sent to an external biologist who saw it for himself. There are first hand accounts from parents, scientists, doctors and politicians. The CDC haven't denied anything or called their lawyers despite it being an allegation of the biggest medical fraud ever (not exact words but something along those lines)

I just can't believe it's not been in the news! AIBU to ask if anyone else is planning to watch it??

OP posts:
Notanotherpawpatrol · 20/02/2017 15:06

There are many things I can tie to the 'cause' of my DDS autism. I changed her milk and put her on cow and gate. I bet it was an ingredient in there! If I pay a scientist enough money I could even get him to fake evidence, I could find 100's of other parents who might say 'well yes, I also gave my child cow and gate, they were diagnosed with autism too. IT DOESNT MAKE IT REAL.

Notanotherpawpatrol · 20/02/2017 15:10

And yes yes to the rise of autism being crap. I believe my sister in law has autism, she's now in her 40's and has never been diagnosed because when she was a child it just didn't exist Hmm
I'm on many autism support groups on Facebook, and trust me when I say there are many 20-30+ year olds posting about their journey and how they are only now getting diagnosed. There are many parents who after going through assesment with their children are realising that actually they are on the spectrum too.
There isn't a fuckin rise in autism, there is an acceptance that it exists and an understanding that people with the condition need help and support, that doesn't matter if they are 2 or 52.

shinynewusername · 20/02/2017 15:11

I think these parents deserve to be listened

They have been listened to. MMR is the most studied vaccine of all time and there is no link with autism. In fact, a study published last week demonstrated that brain differences in children who go on to develop autism can be detected from the age of 6 months.

But that won't make any difference to you and your fellow conspiracy theorists, will it? Because you would rather get some twisted power kick out of making parents feel frightened of the vaccines that can save their children's lives. Piss off back under whichever rock or bridge you crawled out from.

MrsDustyBusty · 20/02/2017 15:15

Can anyone explain WHY there is this massive conspiracy? I mean people don't do things for no reason...

Just pure evil, I suppose. Who knows why the villains in those James Bond documentary exposes do the evil stuff they do?

blackcherries · 20/02/2017 15:15

There's a reason things like this are made into documentaries - because the makers can control exactly what goes into it. In print/online they would get torn to shreds when they try to present their evidence.

Can you link to a single fact or account that's given in the film? I.e. the studies they talk about etc? Then you can see what I'm talking about.

AliceInUnderpants · 20/02/2017 15:17

Risk of what? Link to what? Is this the tripe about the MMR causing autism, although it has been wholly disputed and found to have no grounds?

Fuck off. My child is better off autistic than dead.

SaorAlbaGuBrath · 20/02/2017 15:18

Vaccines don't cause autism, neither does diet, pregnancy stress, something you ate or whistling the Hungarian national fucking anthem while swinging from a chandelier. Both my boys have ASD, both showed signs before the first dose of MMR. DD is also fully vaccinated because I'm not an idiot or a selfish twat and doesn't have ASD.

HookandSwan · 20/02/2017 15:21

I think with vaccines it's always going to be a touchy subject....I believe children should be vaccinated but I also believe in a parents right to educate themselves as they see fit.

mrsmortis · 20/02/2017 15:22

hackmum - Yes mumps, measles, etc. were an accepted part of childhood when I was growing up. But that didn't stop them being deadly. A lot of us seem to have forgotten that. You aren't talking about a mild disease that causes a little discomfort but one that killed 1,000s.

My little sister got measles at 16. She was hospitalised and for a while it was touch and go. I remember my mum being warned that there was a high likelihood of her sight being significantly impaired. I also remember my Mum in tears trying to decide if she could have forced the doctors to vaccinate my sister and I. With a family history of eczema and asthma the GP would not vaccinate us as children, in line with the standard medical advice at the time.

Measles a disease you would not wish on your worst enemy. And certainly something you want to prevent your children from getting.

measles64 · 20/02/2017 15:22

My brother was diagnosed at the age of 52, looking back as a toddler he showed what we would now know as obvious signs, thank God we are better educated today.

ActuallyThatsSUPREMECommander · 20/02/2017 15:22

What I never got was how Wakefield made his logical leap from
Finding A: I've found measles germs in the guts of children with autism" to
Conclusion B: "it's clearly the combination involved in the triple vaccine which is to blame and single measles vaccine will be absolutely fine".
Even if you accepted finding A, which I have no idea about, why would you leap to Conclusion B. Unless you had a financial interest in manufacturing the single vaccine of course.

DragonsToSlayAndWineToDrink · 20/02/2017 15:23

According to Wikipedia, Vaxxed was directed by the doctor who published the article in the Lancet claiming the link -y'know, the one who was discredited and struck off....

LouKout · 20/02/2017 15:23

Kids can literally regress overnight with autism. My child did. At a totally different time from MMR.

Dawndonnaagain · 20/02/2017 15:24

I am 58. I have an Autistic Spectrum Condition. I have had it all my life. I have never had an MMR, due in part to my age. I have had Measles, I have had Mumps and I have had Rubella. Interestingly I was one of the first to have the single Rubella vaccination at 14, only to discover a number of years later that it only lasted a few years. I got German Measles at about 22. (I had signs of Autism long before that).
The so called rise in Autism is due in part to better recognition and a great deal of us oldies obtaining diagnoses.

shinynewusername · 20/02/2017 15:25

What I never got was how Wakefield made his logical leap from Finding A: I've found measles germs in the guts of children with autism" to Conclusion B: "it's clearly the combination involved in the triple vaccine which is to blame and single measles vaccine will be absolutely fine"

I think you'll find the logical leap occurred when he accepted payment from parents attempting to sue the makers of vaccines..

TheSnorkMaidenReturns · 20/02/2017 15:25

@SaorAlbaGuBrath

I'd very much enjoy seeing your evidence based research on this wild claim that "whistling the Hungarian national fucking anthem while swinging from a chandelier" doesn't cause autism. #AlternativeFacts

shinynewusername · 20/02/2017 15:27

And YY to everyone saying there is no rise in autism. The total number of children diagnosed with developmental delay/learning difficulties has been stable for decades. All that has happened is that we have got better distinguishing autism from other disorders that affect learning & behaviour.

gamerchick · 20/02/2017 15:32

Odfod. As an autism parent I can assure you DD showed signs of autism BEFORE she had the MMR

Yup same here.

I spend a lot of time with people who are just one after the other getting their diagnosis. A fair few older than the mmr itself.

fuckingwall · 20/02/2017 15:33
explain the research into autism very well
Dawndonnaagain · 20/02/2017 15:33

It should also be noted that Wakefield directed Vaxxed. William Thompson's contribution was found to have been 'creatively edited' and he has never accused the CDC of fraud. The whole thing was manufactured by Wakefield. Brian Hooker's research and analysis was based on fewer than ten children and his article was formally retracted from Translational Neurodegenaration.
There has never been any scientifically proven link between autism and vaccines or combination of vaccines. The film is a nonsense.

AliceInUnderpants · 20/02/2017 15:37

FFS it's pretty simple. The MMR was first used in 1971. The diagnosis of 'autism' under that name was used in 1938 by Asperger. Autism symptoms have been documented as early at the 1700s.

There is no fucking link.

LiquoriceAllsorts86 · 20/02/2017 15:39

As a parent with 2 boys with ASD, I won't be watching. I've been through stages of blaming anything and everything for my children's condition. It's not productive. Looking back I always knew there was something different about them, long before they were vaccinated.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 20/02/2017 15:40

This was on the BBC last week. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38955872 I mean, obviously the anti vaxxers are crazy, but how would you explain away changes in the brain before the vaccine?

helpimitchy · 20/02/2017 15:42

I'm 47 and autistic. I'm too old to have had the MMR. Many adults are now being identified as being autistic.

CloudPerson · 20/02/2017 15:43

On the one hand, Wakefield's studies have been repeated umpteen times and none of his results have been replicated, indicating that his results weren't as accurate as he thought they were, plus his control group (was it 12 children?) was laughably small.
Documents that claim to show proof of a MMR/autism link have been debunked and proved not to be right (eg, there was believed to be a link for black boys in a certain area in America, this was since found to be false and to do with a vaccine program that was introduced, and these children first had contact with HCPs where before they had none, so their ASD was first highlighted at a time when it looked like it corresponded with their vaccinations).
I was struck by the lack of appropriately experienced Drs in vaxxed, claims were made but never backed up, no evidence of anything is given, just lots of dramatic claims designed to capture the unquestioning mind, I guess this has been ok because the film isn't a bona fide medical advisory documentary, it appears to be badly put together and relates to medical issues in a fictional way that suits Wakefield's agenda. Had the film been made with Drs fully experienced with ASD, neurology, vaccination specialists etc, it may have held more credibility, but it didn't, which to me speaks volumes. It's rather like watching Most Haunted and seeing it as absolute proof of ghosts existing.

On the other hand, for some parents, an autism diagnosis for their child feels terrible, the worst thing in the world - usually because of information from the experts, and other people surrounding them, and (in a completely anecdotal way), I've noticed this attitude where ABA (a form of therapy which is considered abusive by autistic adults who have been through it) is commonplace, so there is obviously devastation that a child is autistic and a need to train the child to behave in a non-autistic way and a desire to cure them.

It's a common thing with any diagnosis to look for answers, look for a blame. MMR is an obvious one, but one that has been disproved over and over again. As is seen so often though, should a parent worry about it, they are generally treated as stupid by the pro-vaccination community, and discussion cannot take place. I believe this is the kind of scenario that benefits charlatans like Wakefield, because he appears to be doing something that many other Drs are not doing, he (and others like him - bleach enemas anyone?) is listening to them and answering their questions, and not treating them like a bunch of tossers, and he's drawing them right into his agenda at a point where these parents are vulnerable.
Support for DC with ASD and treatment of parents by experts is notoriously poor, and I think this leads parents to believe the charlatans and put their trust in them because they don't feel they have any other way of getting through their lives.
There's also the fact that autism awareness/acceptance is piss poor and leads to many parents feeling isolated and wanting to fix their child, rather than being able to understand that they're not broken, just needing a different approach, one that suits them better.

So, no I don't believe that vaccines are linked to autism, but I can see why so many buy into that belief.

I'll also add that I was diagnosed with ASD last year, aged 40. When I was young I was still autistic, but the diagnostic manuals then we're still works in progress, as they still are today.
OP, if you're interested, have a read of Neurotribes by Steve Silberman, it's excellent, and unlike Wakefield's agenda of ASD = worse than death, it's actually very positive about autism and gives a good history and explanations as to the higher diagnosis levels today.