To dare speak about Vaxxed on MN?

[thegoodfight]

NC for this but a regular.

So I've just watched the documentary Vaxxed. I know how vaccine threads unfold on MN, so I'm ready to be told IABU however I feel like everyone should see this whatever your views - it's about the cover up around studies into autism and MMR

There is an admission from a CDC insider that he worked on the study and hid data which proved a link (a strong an quite frankly astounding one) and the data was sent to an external biologist who saw it for himself. There are first hand accounts from parents, scientists, doctors and politicians. The CDC haven't denied anything or called their lawyers despite it being an allegation of the biggest medical fraud ever (not exact words but something along those lines)

I just can't believe it's not been in the news! AIBU to ask if anyone else is planning to watch it??

Not joining this thread to say anything other than....nobody...(not even anti vaxxers)...has ever suggested the MMR is the only cause of autism. Unvaccinated people can have autism. Peanuts can cause death...but they certainly aren't the only cause.

Over and out.

How the fuck does it cause autism ? People are born with it !

I can't add anything to this debate. I wish it would Just. Fuck. Off. And never be spoken of again. I am however grateful to those of you who patiently and calmly explain why the mmr jab doesn't cause autism and why Andrew Wakefield is a just a discredited conman. I thank you all.

Autism is caused by a gene. Maybe a vaccine can exacerbate the gene or make symptoms worse but it does not cause autism. Case closed.

Wouldn't WHAT mean everyone who's had MMR would be autistic?

i think its fine to have a triple vaccine like MMR but if you want single vaccines you should be able to do that too. its about choice and making you feel comfortable with what your doing. I'm sure the rate of coverage would go up if they offered single vaccines.

no one should be railroaded into doing something they don't want to... no one should be bullied into something they don't want to do - name calling gets no one anywhere. just because someone doesn't want to do something your way doesn't make them stupid they are happy with the risk they are taking.

the NHS could and does do worse things than pay for single vaccines.

What causes neurotypiciality then?

Gene?

Case closed?

Erm nope.

I don't for one single second believe that the MMR or any other vaccine causes autism, but even if it did I would rather my child were autistic than dead or severely disabled due to a perfectly preventable disease.

I am aware of the very real difficulties experienced by autistic people and those who care for them, but rather than see autism as a great evil that automatically sentences people to misery maybe we could think about what we as a society need to change so that autistic people can live better lives?

There were at least 2 reasons for not providing single vaccines:

1. The cost of making and administering single doses
2. Lack of uptake for all or part of the series

Add to that not wanting to give in to what was, effectively, blackmail and wanting to educate people as to the realities of vaccination.

Pandering to fearmongerers and their feckless chums - yes Tony and Cheri, I do mean you - is not what the NHS is or should be doing!

I can't believe this is the subject of another thread.

Of course the CDC haven't commented or sought legal advice, they have no need to because they would be responding to nonsense I'm afraid.

And from the first page of the thread, it's Thimerosal or thiomersal.

The single vaccines aren't the perfect solution though - they are not as effective because of the delay between each dose. They are NOT equivalent.

What annoys me is that this more expensive, less effective "option" is being touted as a sensible half-way house kind of deal. If someone from Apple published a paper saying that using Windows increases your chance of catching AIDS, and then appeared years after being laughed out of town for his naked audacity and mendacity with a smashing new app that 'proved' Windows causes AIDS, we wouldn't entertain the notion for a moment and wouldn't ditch Windows in favour of iOS "just in case".

1. The cost of making and administering single doses
but if people want to pay for a single dose why not allow them?

2. Lack of uptake for all or part of the series

and? some immunity is better than none surely?

Pandering to fearmongerers and their feckless chums - yes Tony and Cheri, I do mean you - is not what the NHS is or should be doing!]

your not pandering to anyone - your addressing their fears and helping overcome them. I guess its better to call them names though - that will make all the difference...

My son has had gene tests. He has the same gene that his father and brothers have. These were identified last year by a new study done in America. As my husbands father and grandfather were also odd and weird according to his mother I agree with the genetics department at Sheffield it is very likely they were also autistic and carried the gene. So as only one of them had the MMR can't see how that was the cause.

The single vaccines aren't the perfect solution though - they are not as effective because of the delay between each dose. They are NOT equivalent

please explain what you mean by delay between each dose.

I truly believe that if our PM at the time, Tony Blair, had said in 2001 'Yes, of course Leo has had the MMR, the autism link is complete nonsense' then the whole thing would have died a death but unfortunately when asked he said 'it's none of your business' thus implying that Leo hadn't had the MMR and the autism link was a possibility. It ratcheted up demand for single vaccines and kept the suspicion alive.

Meme - you're right, anti-vaxxers don't just blame MMR.

They also like to have a pop at the vaccines that save people from flu, whooping cough, polio...

Bertrand seems to think that suggesting that the single measles vaccine should be available as an alternative to the MMR makes people 'anti-vaxx' - stranfevlogiv seeing as the single measles vaccine is still a vaccine but oh well! :)

Helena, as a few people have said, no one is saying that the MMR is the one and only cause of autism.

Applebite, I was talking about the paper itself because people often refer to it as proving a link between the MMR and autism. They obviously haven't read it if they think that.

Leaving the whole MMR/autism discussion aside, it's wrong to assume that vaccines are always entirely safe. Historically, people died from smallpox vaccine, and from the live polio vaccine.

Vaccines are inevitably much safer now than they were in the past, because so much research has gone into them, but it's difficult to develop a vaccine that is 100% safe. Take the swine flu vaccine, for example, which caused narcolepsy in a small minority of people. (Incidentally, a common misperception on these threads seems to be that if a vaccine has side-effects, then everyone who receives it must experience those side-effects, which obviously isn't true, just as not everyone has side effects from taking the contraceptive pill, for example).

It's all about weighing up risk, and some risks are easier to weigh up than others. If I were going to a country where yellow fever was prevalent, I'd have the vaccine without a moment's doubt. I might find the decision about the swine flu job a harder one to make.

The real difficulty with the MMR vaccine is that people had to make the choice whether to administer it to their children, which was massively anxiety-inducing: risk your child having measles, mumps or rubella, or increase their risk (as we were led to believe at the time) of developing autism. The whole controversy raged when my daughter was tiny and I went through agonies of indecision about it.

Bumbley - Instead of telling everyone what the paper doesn't say, why don't you tell us what it does say and why Wakefield got struck off by the GMR? They don't do that for nothing!

No, people often refer to HIM as saying there is a link, which he has, often, recently! Few people have read the paper. Why quibble with that when the source of the stupidity is still HIM!

And I think you mistyped, let me correct that for you!

Helena No right minded person is saying that the MMR is in anyway a cause of autism.

HTH

Applebite - Instead of telling everyone what the paper doesn't say, why don't you tell us what it does say

why don't you read it for yourself instead of taking someone elses word for it, then you can make up your mind and not get someone elses take on it.

I went through agonies of indecision about it And those agonies weren't even really caused by the sodding vaccine!

They were caused by a lying, greedy weasel who, along with ever shit stirring media hacks, has managed to do an immeasurable amount of damage to inumerable people... and get rich off it!

Peggy - because I am not the one posting here saying "wakefield didn't say this" and dropping not-so subtle hints. If bumbley wants to partake in the debate, she would be a lot more credible if she spelled out what she actually thinks, not dance around the issue.

Dawndonna, I'm not selectively quoting. Feel free to post a quote from the paper that says what so many people seem to think it does - that MMR causes autism.

Also worth noting that at the time of the press conference the single vaccines were available on the NHS so people did have an alternative if they worried. The single measles vaccine was withdrawn 6 months later. Really bad timing IMO. People decided not to vaccinate at all rather than give the MMR.