To have judged this mum?

[Flowersinyourhair]

I've just witnessed some awful parenting in a cafe and feel slightly rubbish that I looked away and said nothing.

Sitting in a cafe at lunchtime with my two girls (youngest a toddler, oldest 10). On the table next to us are two women, clearly friends, and their collective 3 children (a baby, an 18 month old-ish and a toddler of a similar age to mine). Lots of smiling between the kids, parents chatting etc. All well, until it's time for them to leave.

Woman 1 grabs hold of the toddler with no preamble, no warning, just reaches over and grabs him while still chatting to her friend. Child predictable yells "no", starts crying and kicking off about leaving. Mother forcibly shoves him into his pushchair next to the 18 month old sibling. Child now crying in earnest. Mum gets down in his face and yells at him to "shut up or I'll give you something to cry about". Child now desperate. He reaches out and grabs something from the table, knocking some bottles over. Mother immediately hits him. It then becomes clear that he's grabbed the bottle because he was thirsty. Mother now gives him the drink, telling him for not telling her he needed a drink and being "a naughty boy" instead. At one point she apologise to the friend she was with who said "it's ok". The woman then said to the child "she doesn't think you're ok. She thinks you're a naughty boy who deserved that smack".
My children were really upset by this. When this woman shouted, she really shouted and they were really close to where we were sat.

I kept quiet throughout but to be honest I wish I'd said something. If this woman behaves like that in public, lord knows what those children go through at home. Notably, when she shouted in the toddlers face, the 18 month old sitting right next to him didn't even flinch.

The other mum, with the baby, gave me a "sorry" look as they left. I'm hoping that maybe she's in a position to intervene if needed.

Naughty steps

You are behind on your reading! They are the currently socially accepted form of the dunces hat/standing in the corner.

Not defending the smack but maybe this kids kicks off every time it's time to leave anywhere. Maybe the mum gets herself so worked up when it's time to leave she just doesn't handle it very well. She might be a brilliant mum for the rest of the time. She might not. Who knows! You can't really judge her parenting from this one incident can you! You said they were all sitting round quite happy until this point.

Hitting a child is not a "parenting style" it is violence.

One human hitting another because they are bigger and more powerful than the other is not a philosophical approach it is just barbaric.

Well l would have intervened, that poor child, and nasty woman.....l don't believe because we adults get tired or distressed or have problems, we should treat children like that..ever.

If thats judgy...fine maybe we need to be judged when we behave like that.

The mother has choices, children don't

That sounds awful...I'm the same as you I would have not done anything at the time and wished I had.

I was on a bus last year and there was a mum and a 3 year old. she was very young and in all honesty appeared drunk or drugged. Whilst she was on the bus she didn't say a single word to the child who looked very poorly cared for, she made a call and yelled at someone for posting something on Facebook calling them a ct
When she got to her stop she stood up and got off the bus leaving the kid in the seat. seeing as mum had got off the bus the child started to get off herself but couldn't get down the step, mum was walking away from the bus by this time. I helped the girl get down the step and at this point the bus started to pull away presumably because the driver thought she was with me am my daughter. I had to yell at him to stop. The child got off the bus herself and called after the mum. I heard her turn round and yell fuing hurry up you little twat, And the kid had to race after her. My daughter was a year older and she would have been in bits if i left her on a bus!
I did eventually report it but they said there was little that they would have been able to do to identify the mother. If this was the level of neglect in public, I shudder to think what she was like at home!

While its important not to judge on a single episode, sometimes all the factors point to a bigger picture.

The results showed unequivocally that spanking (defined as an open-handed hit on the behind or extremities) was significantly linked to detrimental outcomes.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/good-thinking/201604/what-really-happens-when-parents-hits-their-kids

MajorGeneralBuldeeff what gives you the right to judge the way another parent educate his children? If you are so narrow-minded and cannot even comprehend the difference between a slap/ smacked bum and physical abuse and broken bones, you are just demonstrating that you are not fit to make a judgement on other people.

Abandoning your child in public transport is not quite the same as dealing with a tantrum.

I'd like to ask one question to all the posters saying "if that's what it's like in public what is it like at home?"

Are you more nasty at home then when you are in public? If so, understand you are projecting and not so innocent yourself. If not, why do you think this is a minimised version of her behaviour.

If she is so ignorant as to not realise it is bad behaviour, why do you believe it is modified in public and worse at home?

This is a sickening thread based on nothing more than judgemental assumptions. Even worse than watching Jeremy Kyle (does it still air?), because you don't even have the half facts you got on his show.

You know what else, I truly believe this mob mentality and shaming stops more people seeking help.

But sure, enjoy your coffee and idle gossip. You're all great!

Erm, hitting a child is against the law in over 30 countries. Clearly there are millions of "narrow minded not fit to judge people" on this planet.

I don't really understand what you are talking about? Who am I judging? I didn't say anything about leaving a child on a bus and wasn't replying to that post.

It should not have happened but I agree with dizzy

Maybe it does happen everytime they leave somewhere. She pivked him up to put him in pushchair without warning. Maybe she does not say to him. In 3 mins I'm going to pick you up and put you in buggy. Then we are leaving ect ect. I used to have to force my now 6 year old when she was a toddler. I would have pick her up fast get her in buggy have to use my knee to hold her in so I could do the straps and the reins or she would get out. To outsiders it looked bloody mad. I can understand she may have lost it of its been going honest for weeks and weeks and every time she needs to leave. I don't agree with the smacking bit that's not ok. Maybe he had a padded coat on and it did not actually hurt him.

When my kids have played up in the past I have had people say something I quite like it as it defused the situation. And the kids stop instantly I think because it's someone different.

The results Major are hardly unequivocal. There are plenty of research bases that demonstrate smacking per se does no long term harm as long as the child feels loved. I dislike smacking but can see at least that (sharp intake of breath) some parents do smack and believe it to be right. These are not dreadful parents but reasonable parents with a different viewpoint. My view is far better a child learns boundaries than grows up thinking the world revolves around them at all times. I never needed to small - a look was generally sufficient.

'don't convince yourself yourself you've witnessed something awful'
'Convince yourself you've not witnessed something awful because Everything Is Fine lalalalala'
FTFY

Erm, there are studies showing that smacking children does not do any harm as long as the children feel loved.

I am commenting on your horribly judgmental post confusing parenting with abuse (the bus incident was from another poster, clearly never acceptable).

Anyhow, the OP account of the incident does sound more than exaggerated, and the OP sounds pathetically judgmental. I am judging anyone who neglect their own kids and concentrate on other people.

If you're in a supermarket or similar you can report to customer services who will have a safeguarding policy. However we have all as parents been in situations where we have lost our temper and felt awful afterwards in public places . It's very hard to know if this is one of those moments or something worse. I don't think it means things are worse at home, public places are usually way more stressful. The forceful putting in a buggy isn't too bad as probably toddler always difficult to get in I well remember buggy wars kids even once tipping buggy in such a fit of rage .

Not hitting a child doesn't mean that you teach them that the world revolves around them nor does it mean that you engage in protracted discussions beyond their developmental ability. Those are your alternatives to hitting. They are not the only alternatives to hitting a child.

Hitting a child does not teach them that the world does not revolve around them. FFS.

This is such a regressive conversation that I really can't even engage seriously.

Just to clarify that's the kid in the buggy having such a tantrum they manage to tip the buggy not another child tipping it over !

Hitting a child. Of course anybody would have judged. It's difficult to know what to do in the heat of the situation, regarding speaking out.

This thread is making me feel sick, when will people stop fucking condoning smacking your children because you have lost control? Would the responses be the same if someone was smacking their partner in public during a row? Oh, oh, maybe they're just a bit stressed!?

Let's stop trying to think of snapshots and giving her the benefit of the doubt, there's always help available if you're struggling to cope with the frustrations of parenthood.

OP, you're not being holier than thou, you're having a normal response to a cretin abusing her child in public, those poor babies.

I agree Rixera

People use words such a 'child abuse' and 'safeguarding' are clearly ill-informed.
Smacking is not illegal in the UK. Regardless of whether it is in 30 other countries, regardless of whether you/anyone thinks it should be, it currently isn't.

genuine question, what can you do or say?

I do intervene in life, but I am always very wary of getting into a confrontation in front of children, either theirs or mine. I cant see it ending well

FWIW she sounds like a cunt, and even if it was fucks sake! snapshot, she needs telling not to be such a bitch

I got a smack on the back of my legs as a girl, I remember it well because it bloody hurt but I never tried to run into a main road again.

I once told my mum to fuck off in a bout of hormonal, teenage, petulant rage filled rebellion when I was about 15. I sported a decent shiner for about a week and needless to say i've never spoken to her like that since!!

I love my mum to absolute bits and would never say I was abused just because she gave me the odd smack.

There isn't a whole lot you can do, but what I would do is tell my DD to sit and wait quietly, and tell the woman that it is not acceptable to treat her children like that.
It probably won't change her behaviour but I can handle her trying to smack me (ha ha) and the absolute most important thing IMO is that it tells her children that it is not acceptable for their mother to treat them like that.

If they grow up thinking it is normal and okay, their adulthood will be much harder than growing up knowing their mother was being nasty and they didn't deserve it.

Poster: my DH slapped me, screamed in my face and pushed me
MN Collective: LTB, he's a cunt, he's abusive

Poster: a woman slapped a child, screamed in its face and pushed it
MN Collective: aw poor hun, maybe she's having a bad day

Can no one see how fucked up this is?