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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have judged this mum?

342 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 15/02/2017 14:42

I've just witnessed some awful parenting in a cafe and feel slightly rubbish that I looked away and said nothing.

Sitting in a cafe at lunchtime with my two girls (youngest a toddler, oldest 10). On the table next to us are two women, clearly friends, and their collective 3 children (a baby, an 18 month old-ish and a toddler of a similar age to mine). Lots of smiling between the kids, parents chatting etc. All well, until it's time for them to leave.

Woman 1 grabs hold of the toddler with no preamble, no warning, just reaches over and grabs him while still chatting to her friend. Child predictable yells "no", starts crying and kicking off about leaving. Mother forcibly shoves him into his pushchair next to the 18 month old sibling. Child now crying in earnest. Mum gets down in his face and yells at him to "shut up or I'll give you something to cry about". Child now desperate. He reaches out and grabs something from the table, knocking some bottles over. Mother immediately hits him. It then becomes clear that he's grabbed the bottle because he was thirsty. Mother now gives him the drink, telling him for not telling her he needed a drink and being "a naughty boy" instead. At one point she apologise to the friend she was with who said "it's ok". The woman then said to the child "she doesn't think you're ok. She thinks you're a naughty boy who deserved that smack".
My children were really upset by this. When this woman shouted, she really shouted and they were really close to where we were sat.

I kept quiet throughout but to be honest I wish I'd said something. If this woman behaves like that in public, lord knows what those children go through at home. Notably, when she shouted in the toddlers face, the 18 month old sitting right next to him didn't even flinch.

The other mum, with the baby, gave me a "sorry" look as they left. I'm hoping that maybe she's in a position to intervene if needed.

OP posts:
WaitrosePigeon · 16/02/2017 14:38

I think you know I wouldn't do that.

think you need to calm down.

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 14:40

But you wouldnt know both sides pigeon sp how can ypu possibly judge??.

WaitrosePigeon · 16/02/2017 14:42

That's exactly it, I wouldn't know both sides. So I'd rather not judge.

Unless there was something really severe going on. It totally comes down to a case by case basis.

If I was going to confront someone I would absolutely be kind to that parent and see if there was anything I could do to help.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 14:45

MommaGee: How is the smoking different from the smacking though? Both actions you would see as morally wrong and poor parenting. Both are legal. Why would it depend on who it was?

NavyandWhite · 16/02/2017 15:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bulletjournal · 16/02/2017 15:16

glad to know if you see a child getting beaten, someone being murdered, a child being neglected..

but that's the point. If I see a murder or a beating (or a grown up or a child!), I call the police. If I see a mother punching her child, I would call for help too. If I see a mother smacking her toddlers'bottom, I would not do such a thing, because it's not abuse. If I see a mother shouting " I said no" and dragging her kid in tears away from the ice cream van, I would not report it either.

I don't agree that a smacked bottom or a reasonable smack is abuse. I am a lot more concerned by people stupidly endangering their kids life, but at loss to know what to do.

bulletjournal · 16/02/2017 15:18

I was replying to the some of you make excuses for this type of abuse is beyond me* comment using another posters words btw!

CaraAspen · 16/02/2017 15:20

Tracey300884

Derlei It's not your place to "say something" if someone is shouting at their kids. Hitting them yes, but not just shouting for god's sake!! I shout at my daughter all the time, not through choice. I have to. It's the only thing that works with her, sadly.

You shout at your daughter "all the time". How horrible for your poor child.

NavyandWhite · 16/02/2017 15:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gottagetmoving · 16/02/2017 15:25

You shout at your daughter "all the time". How horrible for your poor child.

Agreed. When she said it is the only thing that works, I think she means it is the only thing she knows how to do.
I do wish parents would say 'I don't know what else to do' instead of believing what they are doing is ok and defending it.

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 15:29

Both are legal well a smacked bottom is legal so I'd only speak to a friend about it is i felt it was her only recourse to discipline and I was concerned for them both. O wouldn't comment on a mom in the shop doing it cos its legal.
A punch to the face? I'd report even family to SS. Person .in a shop? I think intervention would probably exacerbate the situation but if I had enough info to report I would. Person smoking I'd talk to friend, stranger would probably walk off

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 15:31

Whereas I think 'It's the only thing that works' obviously means it is the only thing that can always be relied upon to work if necessary, not that that is all the poster does.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 15:32

MommaGee: Fair enough.

Anyone else?

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 15:50

Unless there was something really severe going on. It totally comes down to a case by case basis. genuinely horrified that the example I gave of a parent back handing her toddler round th face doesbt register on your severe rating, it's still on the two-sides to a story radar.

CaraAspen · 16/02/2017 15:54

Tracey300884
"I have to. It's the only thing that works with her, sadly."

What part of that don't you understand, Trifleorbust?

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 15:55

CaraAspen: I don't take things unnecessarily literally.

WaitrosePigeon · 16/02/2017 15:56

genuinely horrified that the example I gave of a parent back handing her toddler round th face doesbt register on your severe rating, it's still on the two-sides to a story radar.

Unless I have seen it with my face, not with second hand information I can't tell you what I would do. Hence the case by case basis, the including me being there to personally witness it.

I can't judge anything on second hand information:

Areasonablegal · 16/02/2017 15:59

Lots of talk of 'parenting styles' and dont intervene because its not 'my place' and its not illegal to hit a child....

If i see a child, or anyone else for that matter being treated like that - screamed at, grabbed, pushed and shoved, i would have to say something or do something.

How cowardly for that woman to take her frustrations out on a child - mo more than 3 yrs old, who relies on her to protect him.

Vile woman.

And before anyone leaps on me with parenting style/snapshot bollocks, it is not ok to scream and grab/shove and hit a child like that. Its abusive, unnecessary and a sign that the parent is not in control.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 16:03

Areasonablegal: Am still hoping for an answer to my question about smoking. Do you think it is morally right to smoke around a child? Would you intervene if you saw someone doing it?

IfOnlyIKnewThen · 16/02/2017 16:03

Triffle you've hit the nail on the head about smoking. I am incredibly judgemental about this when people are pregnant and when they have children but I can only imagine broaching the subject if I knew someone well. I do not allow my children to be around people who smoke as I don't want to normalise that type of behaviour. In public we move and I explain why. It's perfectly legal but it disgusts me nevertheless.

I think it is very interesting that most posters have chosen to ignore the point you have made about smoking. Perhaps some of them smoke themselves or have allowed it to happen around their children. Or like me have stayed silent when witnessing a parent smoking around its child. Why not step in and give that parent advice about the damage they are doing to their child. Legally the parent has no case to answer but it seems that some of you think that that is of little consequence when intervening.

Back to the OP's point. This wasn't great parenting, and I feel for the child but even with all the emotive language used from what has been described I think it is a stretch to say that the legal definition of child abuse has been met. On this basis not stepping in is the right thing to do. I don't think YABU for judging this parent we all judge about different things....I do about smoking and swearing in front of children. I do think YABU to post about it on MN - no benefit to be gained for the child or the mother if she needed support.

Gottagetmoving · 16/02/2017 16:05

CaraAspen
What part of that don't you understand, Trifleorbust

When someone does not want to understand, they won't. The fact the poster also said she does it all the time...is a clue too but if Trifleorbust refuses to see it there is no point in explaining.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 16:07

Gottagetmoving: 'All the time' is an expression - it means regularly. It doesn't mean constantly.

Areasonablegal · 16/02/2017 16:07

Trifle - yes. Same for drinking booze and smoking when pregnant. As someone who has endured losses i really have no time or patience for someone who would knowingly harm their child - especially for their own selfish needs.

I remember going in to hospital for a procedure having lost my first child...and the rage i felt seeing heavily pregnant women smoking outside. Damn right id say something.

Others may not, others may not see any real harm. Up to them. My concience wont allow me to do or say nothing.

Trifleorbust · 16/02/2017 16:17

Areasonablegal: What would you say? Or have you said? You must have to intervene constantly!

KitKats28 · 16/02/2017 16:31

The damage to your child from smoking can be slightly lessened, for instance by smoking outside the house, washing your hands afterwards, wearing a coat over your clothes. My mother never smoked around me until I was almost grown up. I didn't even know she smoked till I was about 10.

The damage from hitting your child cannot be lessened by "not doing it very often", "only doing it when they deserved it", "only doing it so it doesn't leave a mark".

I honestly can't believe that people are trying to obfuscate the issue by dragging the old favourite, smoking, into it. Maybe a mother needs to smoke because she's "having a bad day" or her "toddler is hard work". Come to that, maybe she needs to drink neat vodka or smoke crack for the same reasons for fuck's sake! 🙄

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