To have judged this mum?

[Flowersinyourhair]

I've just witnessed some awful parenting in a cafe and feel slightly rubbish that I looked away and said nothing.

Sitting in a cafe at lunchtime with my two girls (youngest a toddler, oldest 10). On the table next to us are two women, clearly friends, and their collective 3 children (a baby, an 18 month old-ish and a toddler of a similar age to mine). Lots of smiling between the kids, parents chatting etc. All well, until it's time for them to leave.

Woman 1 grabs hold of the toddler with no preamble, no warning, just reaches over and grabs him while still chatting to her friend. Child predictable yells "no", starts crying and kicking off about leaving. Mother forcibly shoves him into his pushchair next to the 18 month old sibling. Child now crying in earnest. Mum gets down in his face and yells at him to "shut up or I'll give you something to cry about". Child now desperate. He reaches out and grabs something from the table, knocking some bottles over. Mother immediately hits him. It then becomes clear that he's grabbed the bottle because he was thirsty. Mother now gives him the drink, telling him for not telling her he needed a drink and being "a naughty boy" instead. At one point she apologise to the friend she was with who said "it's ok". The woman then said to the child "she doesn't think you're ok. She thinks you're a naughty boy who deserved that smack".
My children were really upset by this. When this woman shouted, she really shouted and they were really close to where we were sat.

I kept quiet throughout but to be honest I wish I'd said something. If this woman behaves like that in public, lord knows what those children go through at home. Notably, when she shouted in the toddlers face, the 18 month old sitting right next to him didn't even flinch.

The other mum, with the baby, gave me a "sorry" look as they left. I'm hoping that maybe she's in a position to intervene if needed.

WaitrosePigeon
Absolutely none of your business.

In this case cos you consider the behaviour acceptable or any way any parent interacts with their child even if its abusive?

Derlei It's not your place to "say something" if someone is shouting at their kids. Hitting them yes, but not just shouting for god's sake!! I shout at my daughter all the time, not through choice. I have to. It's the only thing that works with her, sadly.

I wasn't there so can't comment on the particulars of this situation.

It's still none of OP's business.

YY Momma

I can't see that line as anything other than abusive as by definition it's a threat designed to instil fear, not words to modify/improve behaviour.

It's also seems (to me) a clear sign that someone has lost it, and I think even most of those in the smacking camp agree that smacking should be measured - though again, I see nothing 'measured' in deliberately inflicting pain on a child - and not an enraged lashing out.

MajorGeneral Are you a Solicitor?!

Derlei It's not your place to "say something" if someone is shouting at their kids. Hitting them yes, but not just shouting for god's sake!! I shout at my daughter all the time, not through choice. I have to. It's the only thing that works with her, sadly

The only thing that works? Or the only way you think works?
Shouting is ridiculous. Lots of people do it. God knows why.
So,..when your child is at school, the teacher will need to shout at her to get her to do anything?
Probably not.

Perhaps better to have helped than judged. Your judgey energy probably made things worse. Like a pp said, you could have engaged the little boy 'hello, you're a cutie, what's your name?' This could have diffused the situation. Mother was acting badly, but you probably have no idea what stresses she is under with her small children.

I think shouting out of shock sometimes just happens. I shouted at my son the other day when he kicked me in the neck whilst I was driving and I narrowly missed crashing the car. Shouting in someone's face is not acceptable.

I wasn't there so can't comment on the particulars of this situation.
It's still none of OP's business.

So if OP had seen the mum backhand the kid across the face would it be her business? My question is is it her business of it's clear abuse

Like a pp said, you could have engaged the little boy 'hello, you're a cutie, what's your name?' This could have diffused the situation.
Or made mom turn on op and tell her to fk off out of her business

even given the trickiness of judging, if SS had several reports of dodgy parenting behaviour involving one child, they'd investigate. It's not wasting their time as they wouldn't act on one report (due to the chance of that person having a low tolerance for shouting etc). But if they got several reports, the chances of it just being an interfering busy-body are much, much smaller. So that's what I'd do and what I think concerned people should do. Try and establish the full name of the parent or the child, report. Nothing will happen unless the person in question has form or a number of reports.

i think that solves it all really - maybe the Op's wrong and she did just see a particularly bad snapshot. Maybe she's not, if a report is filed and then someone else makes a report etc, then it's not just a snapshot.

clear abuse

Clear abuse is down to personal perception of the situation. There are two sides to every story.

And no, I still don't think it's anyone's business to confront strangers on how they are parenting their children - whether people agree with what they are doing or not.

You think there's two sides to a mother backhanding a toddler across the face??
Something which would be considered illegal as the law dictates an open palm for the slapping of children?
That perhaps the toddler asked for it?

Clear abuse is down to personal perception of the situation fairly certain it's down to the law as a minimum. So Dani P's parents who starved him? Abuse, not a matter of perception and Two sides, maybe he deserved it. Or the kids who die from shaken baby syndrome or with multiple complex injuries that could not have happened ed accidentally whilst the neighbours turned up the telly to drown out the screaming.

That attitude is partly what's wrong with the world

My attitude would be down to invidicual circumstances.

And yes, there are two sides to every story. Especially threads on mumsnet.

the OP says that the mum "hit him". Why do you translate that by " backhanding a toddler across the face?" .

*individual

MommaGee - I doubt that talking to her child would have resulted in the woman telling her to FOFF. But if she had, the sky would not have fallen in.

As a sidenote, I hate the way people stare at mums in cafe's. I had it last weekend. I was in a Greg's (yeah, posh eh ;)) with my DD5 who was (for once impeccably behaved) and ds 18 months who was very wriggly. He lost a sock (for the 10th time), and a woman pointed it out. I laught and said 'oh yes, again' but didn't immediately put it back on - the woman didn't stop STARING the whole time. It was soooo rude. She seemed to be judgey for no good reason (except the missing sock) so I ended up leaving and eating out cakes in the park in the rain.

So if OP had seen the mum backhand the kid across the face would it be her business
My attitude would be down to invidicual circumstances.
And yes, there are two sides to every story.

Sometimes there really isn't.

bullet I didn't. .pigeon said it was none of her business, I clarified whether on general i.e back handing or specifically given these circa.

midlife not at all bit I can understand why people might be wary of making mom more annoyed and then her walking out with a child they'd already been rough with. So not about me feeling offended "oh she said a rude word and more about the consequences of that later - the mom screaming on the middle of the street " and you've just fking embarrassed me you little shit, wait til I get you home" attitude

Still haven't had anyone who would intervene in TVs situation explain why they wouldn't intervene if a mother was smoking around her child. Or explain why they would?

I think it's impossible to say what we would or wouldn't do unless we witnessed it ourselves.

Ah sorry for typos. On bus being a terrible mom on phone. And agree with the funny looks midlife try being on a full us praising your child for licking the king size twix and telling hin to have a bite then passively aggressively telling every via the medium of toddler talk that hes peg fed and licking food is flipping amazing

Sometimes there really isn't.

I am happy to disagree with you.

Trifle it would depend on who it was
Both the OP and TV's situation I would broach with a friend. With a total stranger i dont think there much you can do. With someone you know but not well I'd make a judgement based on everything I knew. SS will act on physical abuse bitt not smoking irrespective of the damamge so it limits what you can do.
I dont think approaching any of the women I see round town and giving them a lecture on smoking would make any difference
If i was somewhere I could report physical assault I would

Pigeon glad to know if you see a child getting beaten, someone being murdered, a child being neglected you'd choose not to act because they might deserve or their parents might have a good reason to abuse them.
God forbid reporting them might enable support or intervention to save a child's life, I mean really let everyone that's not me and mine perish, why would we ever choose to protect the vulnerable?