...to ask you to support this event?

[Niamer]

www.uniteforeurope.org

• we are about to spend £120 billion extricating ourselves from the EU. That money is desperately needed in health and social care sectors.
• many Leave campaign promises, voted for in good faith are untrue
• millions of people directly affected by Brexit were not allowed a vote.

-the referendum was advisory. To have been binding, a supermajority would have been needed to make such a huge constitutional change.

• Brexit is likely to result in the permanent break-up of the UK.
• we are turning our back on our friends and allies of 40 years
• EU citizens in the UK are uncertain of their rights and in many cases feel unwelcome.

I don't like particularly enjoy going to London, I hate crowds, but I HAVE to be at this march. Please consider attending and sharing this event. We are all victims of a fraudulent campaign and are facing a Tory hard destructive unopposed Brexit. I will NOT let this happen to my children without a fight.

Excellent summary, ARhum.

If these things [abortion / capital punishment] were brought in following a referendum and the democratic process being followed, I would be very sad but would accept this. I would campaign for these to be changed back, through the democratic process, not by blocking the democratic process which brought them in.

Then we reach a fundamental point of difference. I would not accept an abortion ban, or the reintroduction of capital punishment, and I would campaign not just to have the decision reversed, but I would actively support any legal means of blocking the legislation being implemented at all.

I couldn't just express sadness and resignation, and respectfully wait while laws are put in place and rights lost, and then express a wish for them to be changed back. That completely ignores the damage such legislation would inflict while I was waiting, politely and patiently, to have my say - which would probably be ignored, anyway, because, hey, there's been a referendum, don't you understand democracy/hey loser YOU LOST lol/how dare you question the people's will. And it's also a lot more effective to stop or soften flawed/damaging legislation before it's put in place.

You say we can set off down a track without thought for where it will take us, which worries me - and that's exactly how millions of us feel about Brexit. More accurately, we were set on the track by a complacent, careless idiot who promised a referendum, and we risk being led even further by someone who has consistently attempted to withold information, to ignore concerns, and to deny our elected representatives the chance to scrutinise and debate the details. Meanwhile, the right-wing press are also fuelling a divisive, dangerous rhetoric where anyone (whether politician, judge or citizen) disagreeing with Brexit can be labelled an 'enemy of the people'. It's a very ominous sign when participation in legal, peaceful democratic processes can be labelled undemocratic.

Good posts Arum - thank you

I don't think we are going to agree. My problem with what you are saying is this:

I would actively support any legal means of blocking the legislation being implemented at all

If you are talking about taking things to court, great, I'm all for that. I was pleased with the Supreme Court ruling, I think it was correct and good for ensuring the democratic process was followed.If you are talking about campaigns and demos, fine.

But you could also be talking about pressure from the rich and powerful, small secretive pressure groups, even influence from foreign powers. I don't want our country run that way. I want transparent government and everyone's vote to have the same worth. Since the referendum there have been many people suggesting that the vote should not be universal. More subtly, many people are suggesting that we keep the appearance of a true democracy but just ensure that the real decisions are taken else where. I do not want this, and in fact this matters more to me than whether we have the death penalty or not (because I think once we set off down that road, the death penalty with be the least of our worries).

I also feel that there is a lot of divisive, dangerous rhetoric around, but I see it coming from both sides.

Good posts Arum - thank you
Hear hear. They are desperate times when a Mumsnet poster is 10 x more statesman like than anyone in Parliament.

Lass And by that you have just proved you have little idea what you are talking about.
Gee thanks

You do understand that leave was not official Conservative policy? That bus was not promoted by the Conservative party or the government

You do understand that leave was not official Conservative policy? That bus was not promoted by the Conservative party or the government

Yes I understand. It was used by leading members of the Tory party to take us out of the EU. They were very happy to use that whopper to win votes.

Oh and the lovely Labour leaver Gisela of course

Gisele Stewart wasn't the only one . Dennis Skinner and Kate Howey are another two.

Gisele Stewart wasn't the only one . Dennis Skinner and Kate Howey are another two.
yep. Well there is an upside: when you have your photograph taken in front of a false promise (or misleading suggestion as they may prefer to call it, there's no denying it at a later date)

And Osbourne's emergency budget, with 15bn of tax increaases and 15bn of cuts - where is that £30bn of promises?

And Osbourne's emergency budget, with 15bn of tax increaases and 15bn of cuts - where is that £30bn of promises?

Oh yes, there were lies on both sides. We may yet see the tax increases and cuts, but I think you'll have a long wait for the extra NHS money.

I voted remain, I wish we had voted remain as a country.

We didn't.

I will not be marching. I feel very strongly that after a decision of this magnitude it is up to ALL of us to make the transition as painless as possible - to do that good old British thing of making the best of a shit storm.

Everyone has a right to protest the decision, to make any point they want. Everyone else also has the right to ignore them.

Thank you for posting Beyond.
it is up to ALL of us to make the transition as painless as possible
How would I do that?

We lobby for the best deals possible, we insist that policies are put into place to cover the problems that will inevitably occur where people's lives are going to be affected.

We insist the monies spent on research grants/funding for green schemes (we are world leaders in tidal power research - that will make our country sooooo much money in the future) are not forgotten about in the headline of "money back for the NHS".

Instead what is happening is that the people who should be lobbying are looking backwards, talking about broken promises, about stuff that WE CANNOT CHANGE instead of stuff we can take forward and make happen like it should, for the betterment of all.

You make your views known to your local MP, you write to them, you publicize the inequities to be visited on the local populations of EU migrants and their families, you make local people know what could happen in their own home towns, and what they need to fight for.

I'll be marching. It's imperative to show Theresa May that 65 million people are not supporting Brexit.
It'd be easier to accept Brexit if there were some acknowledgement that 48% of the electorate didn't want this.
Why is the government doing nothing to heal the division in our society? Why is there no opposition in Parliament? Do we not matter anymore?
And why are we rushing headlong into this without a plan? Who's done the cost/benefit analysis?

Mrspeter What do you suggest the govt does to 'heal divisions'? It was Leave or Stay - there is (and never has been) a Third way.

Thank you Beyondthepage - I agree with your suggestions for action and am doing as much as I can in all of this to ensure the best possible outcome.

I will continue to harp on about the dishonesty of the Leave campaign, even if it proves to be fruitless because it to me it is unforgivable that a nation can be so callously tricked into making what I see as a catastrophic mistake.

carol I'm not proposing a third way. I'd like an acknowledgement of my existence, and an attempt to address some of the Remain concerns.

In particular, I'd like some indication of how the Northern Ireland situation is to be resolved; I am very fearful of a return to the Troubles. I'd like EU citizens already here to be told that they can stay and will not be used to bargain with. And I want to work with Scotland, I don't want to see the end of the UK.

I'm very unhappy with the constant mantra "the people have spoken" and it is the lie about the 65 million that is propelling me down to London to counteract the lie.

because it to me it is unforgivable that a nation can be so callously tricked

So you seriously think millions of people were 'tricked'

So you seriously think millions of people were 'tricked'
Well perhaps what I should have said was enough people were tricked for the whole nation to lose out. The director of the Leave campaign admits it was the lies that handed them the victory.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

It's not 48% of the public though MrsPete, it's 35%. Remainers are keen to point out that the percentage of UK voters who voted for brexit was only 37%.

So you seriously think millions of people were 'tricked

I think quite a few of them were too stupid to know or care what the actual facts were. Mrs "I changed my mind at the last minute cos I saw a straight banana in a shop" wasnt the only one, was she?

I think quite a few of them were too stupid to know or care what the actual facts were

I think that goes for both sides tbh.

I campaigned for remain and heard some pretty stupid reasons as to why people were voting that way.

Oh undoubtedly. It's just that those stupid people stumbled on to the right side instead of the wrong.