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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice on getting access to child after 6 years

178 replies

Crapfriends · 09/02/2017 18:19

Posting here for traffic.
I was speaking to a colleague and he revealed he had a DC he hadn't seen in 6 years. I've had a shit time of it recently and he is a decent bloke and from everything he told me and showed me I felt like it would be good to help him. He had tried to go through the courts but ran out of money. He didn't know where DC had been living and from the court documents there is no reason for him not to have access other than mum simply doesn't want him in their lives. I'm trying to find advice. Gingerbread can only talk to the parent who the child resides with and I can't get through to families need fathers. I don't know where else to try for advice. He has PR as he hasn't been notified of any attempt to remove this from him but I believe the DC believes their step dad is their real dad. It's a sensitive subject and I know it's not really my place but he really hasn't known how to get contact with his child in years. He ran out of money to pursue it and has no idea where they are. I've seen evidence of the attempts he has made and myself wouldnhave recommended everything he has tried. Does anyone here have any advice or charities/organisations I can contact who may be able to help him?

OP posts:
CMamaof4 · 10/02/2017 11:38

Theres never any excuse for not seeing your kid for 6 years, Not one.

When you are a real parent who truely loves their child you couldnt go on living your life without them, It would destroy you, because real parents have this love for their kids which is unbelievable, they would do ANYTHING for their kids, They care so much they would fight for them to see them.

He could have also represented himself in court which cuts costs dramatically, He would know this if he really cared as he would have found this out 6 years ago! and as for not providing for his child why did he not get a part time job whilst he was studying? What sort of 'man' leaves his ex to fully support the child emotionally and financially whist he gets on with his life.

6 YEARS is an incredibly long time to miss out on in a childs life particularly from being a baby, To think that just because he made that child he has some sort of right over him/her when he has NEVER bothered with him/her, couldnt even be bothered to pay maintenance, but 'set up a bank account' for the child? Because that really helps in raising a child doesnt it?....

If he hasnt seen his kid for 6 years he isnt the sort of person who is capable of being a decent father because he could so easily get on with his life without his child. Just another feckless father..

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/02/2017 11:39

borrowed

He knows enough to know this kid has another dad yet has not even a vague idea of where the kid is?

MrsDustyBusty · 10/02/2017 12:01

Also, how is he only able to access support from people he barely knows? Because he's exhausted all avenues of sympathy from friends and family.

rightsofwomen · 10/02/2017 12:15

If it's really a black and white issue ie he's a great Dad who wants to see his kids then he can self-represent in court.

2014newme · 10/02/2017 12:17

You're workplace sounds rather dysfunctional if you are all involving yourselves in each others business.
Take a step back.
He is not your sibling.
Focus on sorting out your own life.

RayofFuckingSunshine · 10/02/2017 12:19

So you are so close to this colleague that you're like siblings, yet you have only just found out he has a child that he hasn't seen?

You are being played like a violin. Keep your nose out of it. If he wanted to see that child he would've. My ex hasn't seen his daughter in 5 years, I have moved three times for my own safety and for my daughters safety and still, if he wanted to find us, he could. There are things going on here that you don't know about and it really is best for all involved that you don't get dragged into it.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 10/02/2017 12:20

Why couldn't he pay child support before? Unemployed people do pay it, and so do students. There's a chap on my course who is supporting his children, as well as paying for food, activities etc. when they stay with him. Why couldn't your friend, Op?

theothercatpurred · 10/02/2017 12:32

OP I suspect lots of people haven't read your update about how young he is (e.g. the one suggesting years of abuse - hardly likely unless they've been together since they were 11 or something!)

When I read your first post I was going to reply to let you know about my ex, who had all sorts of stories about how wronged he was by his ex, who kept their child from him. Funny thing, a few of his friends had similar stories. Turned out they were either useless dads or there was actually a history of abuse, their versions of events were complete alternate realities, which they seemed to believe, even!

However if your friend and his ex were only 16 when they had the baby, that's different IMO. Yes, he could have done more to find the baby, but I don't know how I would have coped with such a situation at that age, probably not very well.

Be careful about overstepping the mark, or giving more of yourself than you can afford to lose, as they say - but I don't see the harm in helping to guide a much younger friend as to the right way to go about doing things.

Just be aware that there may be much more to the story than he is telling you. Point him in the right direction by all means - but he must do the work to get there, otherwise it's not really him trying to see the child, it's you, and that's all sorts of wrong! It really does need come from him.

OneWithTheForce · 10/02/2017 12:35

theothercat I got with my ex when we were 17. We were together for 18 months. He was abusive almost from the start.

Clandestino · 10/02/2017 12:39

My unmarried aunt has always wanted a child. As it happened, she never had one so I was hers. She has never been able to develop an appropriate loving relationship, with boundaries and limitations. It was a total monkey love. When we were away on holidays with another Grandma or with a family, she'd start having screaming fits and demand to have me.
My Mum, who was under severe pressure from my father and his family, had to oblige and "release" me.
When we got older and started studying at the university, I didn't get to see my aunt that often. I studied elsewhere, had a boyfriend. I'd call her from time to time, visit her from time to time, just like you would but I was always looking forward to be with my family.
My aunt had a nervous breakdown and ended up in hospital. One day my Mum got a call from her psychiatrist to come and visit her. The psychiatrist told my Mum that she should order me (and my siblings but especially me) to see the Aunt as much as possible because it's not fair that she's keeping us away from her.
My Mum was totally surprised and told the psychiatrist that she has no influence over her children who are all over 18, have boyfriends and girlfriends, study elsewhere and only come home from time to time.

While the story may seem unrelated, it serves to show how one coin can have two extremely different sides.
To my aunt's psychiatrist, my Mum was a very tough and controlling person, who was so incapable of bringing up three children that my aunt had to help out and as a result there was a maternal relationship between her and me which my Mum sought to prevent and forbid me seeing my aunt who as a result suffered a nervous breakdown.
The truth was that the constant attempts at meddling from my father's family eventually caused a total breakdown of their relationship which was only patched several times while we were smaller because my father was told to either improve and behave like a father or my Mum would leave him (which, honestly, we wouldn't have minded because he never really behaved like a father anyway).

So stay well out of this. Support him by listening to him if you mind but stay completely out of it and don't take sides if your version of the story is one-sided only.

Clandestino · 10/02/2017 12:43

Oh and btw. If you asked my father, he gave us everything. His heart, his money, he was always there for us, always supportive and loving and did all the beautiful things with us that our cruel and irresponsible mother didn't, even though she did her best to separate us.
Nothing could be more false but if someone listens to my father, I am an ungrateful bitch, so is my mother, his son is a mean ungrateful bastard and my sister is only a bit better. But not really. We are all mean.

Ftlofg · 10/02/2017 12:51

there are lots of deadbeat dads. there are not so many who are cut out of their child's lives by the mothers. But that doesnt mean they dont exist despite what people on this thread may say. MN is notorious for having no time for helping out any man, in the right or not. Dfil was a man who was cut out of his dd life. He wasnt perfect but it didnt justify his exdp cutting him out of his dc life. Id second what another poster has said - Point him in the right direction by all means - but he must do the work to get there, otherwise it's not really him trying to see the child

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/02/2017 13:41

Bollocks. MN is not notorious for refusing to help men at all.

Every single thread made by a woman about doing anything to mess with contact that does not feature very serious abuse results in her being flamed

clarrylove · 10/02/2017 13:56

I'm sorry you are getting such a hard time OP. Some of these posts are unwarranted and very rude to you.

Willyoujustbequiet · 10/02/2017 14:32

Borrowed you sound as naive as the op

6 years!!! No child support. There's no excuse

If it walks like a duck ......its a deadbeat dad

SenseiWoo · 10/02/2017 15:23

As a young person and student he would have qualified for legal aid at the start of the estrangement at least.

OP, I do think that if your friend trulydoes want to see his child then he will demonstrate this by taking all the steps you have been mentioning himself. There is nothing wrong with trying to help him, but do have a think about the strength of his motivation based on the amount of effort you see him making. Only help him if he is also making great efforts himself. I do think children should see their fathers, but at the same time it could be damaging to help bring about a massive instrrusion into that child's life for a man who isn't going to bother to stay in contact.

bibliomania · 10/02/2017 15:52

If he's only 22/23, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just not mature enough to do what needed to be done.

You still won't help him by leaping in and making this your quest. At the absolute most, you can point him in the direction of a particular resource (eg. this Gingerbread page). You can't do it for him, you can't look for updates, and you've got to let go of any mental image of a beaming parent and child being reunited and saying tearfully that it's all thanks to you. This is his journey to make.

If that's sounds mean, it's not intended to be. I'm have rescuing tendencies myself, and they have led me astray.

Now that he's in his early 20s, he's old enough to do some googling himself if he's genuinely committed to seeing this through. If he's not, best that he doesn't start raising any hopes by this 6-year old if he's going to give up again.

MrsDustyBusty · 10/02/2017 16:44

If he's only 22/23, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was just not mature enough to do what needed to be done.

Its great to get the benefit of the doubt, isn't it? It's not like there'd have been any I'll effects if both parents were too young to step up in even the most marginal way.

Oh.

SingingInTheRainstorm · 10/02/2017 16:48

OK OP, I think you've not had the answers you wanted so you've abandoned ship so to speak.

The others are right in saying you shouldn't get involved, it's not going to be as clear cut as you imagined, you might find things out about this 'sibling' you don't want / they don't want you to know. In the essence of keeping a professional relationship with the person it's best you take a step back, it sounds like he has a handle on things anyway.

I'm guessing he may have fought for contact rights when they allowed funding for family court cases, but I believe that has ceased. So he hasn't in my mind, spent thousands out of his own pockets going through the courts.

He hasn't been paying CM but he has managed to put money into an account for his DC. The account could have £5 in or £500. But seeing as he's been a student I doubt it's a significant figure. In reality the Mother needs money when the child is growing, not as a lump sum for them to blow when older.

He's helped you through tough times, so you want to repay the favour. You'll learn quickly that you can't really help or save anybody, they need to do this themselves. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but it doesn't always drink.

You feel close to him, but we ascertained he's 22/23, the child is 6, they had the child when both were 16. Christmas has passed, did he not mention with excitement presents he was buying for DC. Ok he might not be able to get them to DC but it's proof if they get reunited, DC has always been on his mind. It seems like you've only recently discovered he was a father, which is odd for saying how close you claim to be.

You need to firstly keep a professional relationship with him, even if you perceive your colleagues to be like family. You then have your out of work relationship, whether it be a friendship or partnership. You can't let the latter encroach on the former.

I'm guessing you're relatively young, you think that you can save the world. You'll realise that dealing with other people's issues on top of your own is draining and quite often thankless. It would be something to avoid in general as others have said.

He needs to do the donkey work himself, it's unlikely that any charity / professional body will spend time with you, as they know that there's usually more to a story than being told. You're getting the shiny gold plated version, when in fact there are many variables. The mother could have wanted him to be involved but stopped trying as it was a waste of her energy. The mother could have been a victim of abuse from the guy, there's many different types of abuse. The families might not get along with one another.

If you excuse the fact he was young, why hasn't his parents sought visitation rights? Why don't they know where their GC is?

I'm not saying the above to be horrid or condescending, but to save you from a situation you can't really help.

An example, a family was split up after an incident where although a person was a victim, many knew the victim provoked the reaction. Regardless the other person hasn't seen the children since, in that time the victim has poisoned the children against this person. So they'll be hard pressed to ever really build a relationship. So not all men are at fault, they pay CM etc. Little can be done to help the person. That's going from knowing the circumstances.

You could spend your energy elsewhere and reap something positive. You can support this friend by listening to them and supporting them. But support doesn't always have to be action. It can be motivating them when they feel there's little hope. So keep supporting your friend, but as many have advocated, trying to save the day isn't a good idea. You will reach a point where you realise this.

I don't know if anyone has highlighted this, you say you've just gone through a horrid time. Isn't it better to focus your attention on yourself and your own recovery? You don't need to save someone else to feel good about yourself. Please believe me. If you are willing to give, there's always those who are willing to take. You seldom get thanks, you seldom get any recognition and long term you will feel deflated.

It's up to you whether you herd what has been said by many. But it's from experience. If you have feelings for the guy that's great, but don't go into a relationship thinking you can change the world for that person. I would seriously think about using Claire's law just to check that nothing untoward has happened for your own safety.

OneWithTheForce · 10/02/2017 16:49

Indeed dusty. Oh to have had the luxury of putting my DC in a box until i felt mature enough to parent them. Unfortunately the little rascals chose to continue growing and needing fed and shit like that.

harderandharder2breathe · 10/02/2017 17:14

OP you've been consistently given good advice to keep out of it. That you have no idea what's gone on. And that he hasn't seen his child for six years because he doesn't want to.

He is capable of googling just like you. The fact that he hasn't shows he never wanted to.

He could represent himself in court. He couldn't be arsed.

Stay well clear, and stop involving yourself in your colleagues personal lives

FannyDeFuzz · 10/02/2017 19:13

theothercat please don't assume that teenage relationships can't be abusive, they absolutely can. You are very naive if you think otherwise. I know girls who have been in abusive relationships from the age of 13, dealing with situations that would break a grown woman.

theothercatpurred · 10/02/2017 19:51

@FannyDeFuzz and @OneWithTheForce sorry if my post was badly worded.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that teenage relationships can't be abusive. I wasn't making any comment on abuse in teenage relationships.

My point was simply that lots of people tend not to RTFT and that some of the responses the OP is getting are probably assuming her friend was a lot older than 16 when he split with his ex and stopped seeing his baby and that they might give a different response if they know how young he was. Not saying it excuses his behaviour, but it certainly puts a different light on it IMO. At 16 he was just a child himself and 16-year-olds are not always known to make the best or most mature decisions!

I picked the abuse post as an example that people weren't responding to her latest update as the posted specifically said there were years of abuse leading up to him leaving, which would be an odd thing to say about a 16yo. Most people don't assume that 16-year-olds boys have been with their pregnant GFs for years, it's something you assume about older people.

NotABloodyChanceLove · 10/02/2017 21:05

You could be looking for me. If so, do one. He is a liar, manipulative and you need to go and get your head checked.

That man is going no where near my child. He doesn't care whatsoever and he doesn't pay maintenance. He never cared, but I will bet my bottom dollar he will say how awful it all is.

The child has no need for this lying, useless, thieving piece of shit who nearly made us homeless.

Do yourself a favour OP and get away from this man.

littledinaco · 10/02/2017 22:22

He was very young. If he admitted that he made a massive mistake by not persuing it but he wants to try to do the right thing now, I think people may be more sympathetic. He's not taking any responsibility though, he's saying it was all out of his control, not his fault, etc