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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shm after children are at school

921 replies

Notthinkingclearly · 05/02/2017 17:45

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

OP posts:
WizardSally · 08/02/2017 11:21

What are my working hours? I'm sorry, I don't recall being asked that already so didn't mean to intentionally ignore it. I work 08:30 - 17:00. Cue the 'well I could never find a job that offers those highly unusual hours, I would have to work at least 05:00 - 23:00' Hmm

WizardSally · 08/02/2017 11:22

Again, what is this disbelief that having a job means you aren't free to pop on MN, think about the weekend, plan dinner? Sometimes I even go to the toilet too Shock

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 11:23

It just seems depressing that the default setting is so often that the woman has to make the sacrifices for the sake of her husband's career.

I don't think that is how it goes, though, piefacerecords. Or, at least, not in quite the way you express it. You decide as a couple that you want to have a child/children. You look at the options available to you. Put crassly, the more money you have, the more options are open to you. If you have very little money, the cost of childcare is prohibitive, so one of you needs to do it. You'd probably go with the lower earner, but, as (obviously) it's the woman who is pregnant and gives birth, she's the one who requires at least a couple of months out, so it often does fall to her. Come all children being at school, then yes, she does have between 9 and 3.15. But do these jobs exist?

If you have a lot of money, the chances are you work in a long hours, high stress sort of job. I can only comment on City sort of jobs, but I suspect you'd be in a similar position if two of you are consultant medics, for example. If you work in the City/corporate law, you are expected to work 12+ hour days as a matter of course. And travel at a moment's notice. Very few people took their full holiday entitlement and were constantly in touch via email etc when they were away. If two of you work in that kind of environment, you require a full time, live in nanny....plus probably a nanny to cover the nanny. The lady up thread who said her friend's childcare bill was over £60k? It would be.

Both of you do that? You'll have a hefty childcare expense, but you can afford it. But you will see very, very little of your children. So many people choose not to; not sure how representative a sample it is, but if I think about it, I can only think of one person I worked with who had kids where both parents worked. (And she was made redundant!). People say the City is sexist and in many ways it is, but not in this regard as, ultimately, it's ruthlessly meritocratic. I've met some very senior women...but if they have kids, their partner is at home. Just the same as the senior men. I can think of only a couple of exceptions to this - and their kids were at boarding school.

So - it's a pretty stark choice. See basically nothing of your kids when they are small because you will not be home when they are awake in the week and will be travelling/going into work for a good chunk of the weekends. Or one of you stays at home, effectively squandering your own economic potential, because once you're out...you're out.

Now - it's a reasonable question why it was my job that went by the wayside and not DH's. Answer? He earned more. I wanted to do the childcare more than he did and I wanted to feed the baby myself. (Don't forget there's a lot of pressure on women to breastfeed; if you're going to go back/share parental leave in one of these jobs, you really have to do it within 3/4 months and so it's just not possible. I don't care if the law says there has to be a room and a fridge etc etc. It just wouldn't happen!)

This is hugely long winded, for which I apologise! I suppose while I agree that it's the woman who usually ends up at home, it's driven by economic factors (and maybe a bit of biology - try as he might, a father cannot lactate!) rather than any societal, anti-feminist "woman's place is in the home" thing.

piefacerecords · 08/02/2017 11:25

The difference being I'd never have to think about that. I wouldn't have had dc if I couldn't provide for them on my own without the financial backing of another human or on the back of another human's death

Crikey that makes me a bad parent then - DH and I would both struggle, in different ways, if either of us were out of the equation - money is just one little part of what it takes to raise a family. We look after our family as a team, together. If people only reproduced under your 'rules' the population would dry up pretty quickly.

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 11:33

if he dies or leaves you, it's gone

Well, no. You are making assumptions - and hurling insults - based on your own experience. If he dies, I get an insurance payout and am the beneficiary of the will. If he leaves me? Yes, my living standard will be reduced (as I presume yours would be if you and your DH were to divorce) but I have a big chunk of assets in my own name (some "mine" as I obviously have worked in the past, some "his" as, further to the terribly edifying debate up thread about tax policy, it's very efficient to use a SAHM's personal/lower rate tax band in that way).

And for the record, yes, I neither know anyone nor have ever had a job where 8.30-5 was anything like typical (or even possible). Funnily enough, one of the school mums I know has just given up the job to which she went back on those "special flexible hours" because it just didn't work in practice....

Only1scoop · 08/02/2017 11:35

I'm a bit of both, I work part time but that equates to around three times per month at the moment.

I'm around much of the time. Dd at school, I think I've become quite lazy in a way. I honestly do take my hat off to my friends who work full time and still manage to do all the stuff that I do.

I also have to have my own money, I couldn't stand asking DP for cash for a lunch out etc. He pays all the bills after all. I wouldn't wish to become another one.

gillybeanz · 08/02/2017 11:38

pieface

You've hit the nail on the head, it's team work.
whether that's raising dc, (I hate the word childcare for own children), domestic chores, family commitments, and working.
If everything is covered between the family, it doesn't really matter who does what.
People work for all sorts of reasons not just monetary otherwise everyone would make a profit from it. There would be no sucking up childcare costs and losing money if people only worked to gain a profit.
I work pt and the money is handy, we don't need it and it's not the reason I chose to work after 25 years of complete autonomy of my time.

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 11:38

I wouldn't have had dc if I couldn't provide for them on my own without the financial backing of another human or on the back of another human's death.

This cuts to the nub of it, actually. That's fine, Wizard. That's your choice and what's important to you. That's your DH's choice and what's important to him. I can respect that and I certainly have no problem with it (as it has zero effect on me or mine).

Our choice was that we didn't want to have children and pay someone else to look after them. That's was what was important to us. This also has zero effect on your yours. The difference is that you have a lack of respect for the choices of others.

GetAHaircutCarl · 08/02/2017 11:42

natalia your description of corporate law is not entirely correct.

My DH is very senior in a law firm. He does not routinely work 12 hours per day. Nor has he ever in all his 20 years of working had to travel anywhere 'on a moment's notice'.

Nor would he ever ask any of his team to be ready and available 24/7. This isn't the 80s.

Client meetings and partner events rarely happen at the drop of a hat. Getting a group of highly successful people together requires planning.

Now of course many men doing this job insist that they need 100% flexibility. But I'd question that in some cases.

Bambambini · 08/02/2017 11:43

Wizard - your practically frothing - why are you so angry and bitter?

If my husband dies, i'm pretty loaded. Do you really have no imagination or knowledge outside your little bubble to understand there are many different ways of living and organising these things?

Better not mention the live in maid (while i was A SAH) - sure I'd feel the spittal even over here.

LunaLoveg00d · 08/02/2017 11:58

Travelling at a moment's notice doesn't happen - that's true enough. But there are plenty jobs which require international and domestic travel and there's often no pattern to it. A day here, couple of days there, a week elsewhere. Depending on the industry too there may be some unforeseen events. A friend's husband works in transport - if there's a train crash or a motorway closes or similar then it's all hands on deck and nobody leaves until it's fixed. Or all night phone calls and conference calls to sort it all out. Really hard to manage that sort of job when you've got someone else working who needs to leave to get to work, or when it's your turn to pick a child up from the childminder and there's some emergency going on.

WizardSally · 08/02/2017 12:00

Wizard - your practically frothing - why are you so angry and bitter?

I'm actually sitting here having a pleasant morning with cake and tea whilst at work and responding to ridiculous posts on here with patience. What an odd assumption for you to make.

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 12:03

Carl Obviously I can't vouch for your husband, but one of my best friends is a partner in a Magic Circle firm. I think he'd say it was a pretty accurate description of his life. He was texting yesterday (from work at 10pm) bemoaning the fact he had to cancel his holiday.

piefacerecords · 08/02/2017 12:03

Wizard you're at work now then?

Can I have your job please? I want to get paid to MN Grin

bulletjournal · 08/02/2017 12:04

I really tried not to be dragged into this, but I can't help it. It's cringing to think all working mums could be put in the same basket as WizardSally.

Clearly you need childcare. I don't know anyone in my office with less than 1 hour commute, so someone needs to take care of the kids.

The financial aspect you describe is also nonsense. My salary is not enough to cover our current lifestyle - why should it be? We have 2 salaries, so we are spending both. If one of us dies, then the other one will have to make big changes anyway, despite the mortgage being then paid off by our life insurance.
If we divorce, then I would still have to find another job and completely change the kids lifestyle too.

I bet I am not the only one. I only work because of the amount of family who is available to take care of my kids. That includes weekend if I have to take care of some boring chores. Not everybody has this luxury.

I also disagree with the idea that you need a job to occupy yourself. I don't work because I don't know what to do with my life. One of my oldest friend stays at home, and doesn't even have children. She is everything but bored, is one of the most interesting people I know and has more conversation than most of us who don't have time to read and educate ourselves as much as she does. lucky cow Grin

Not only I don't recognise myself in your arguments WizardSally but I feel sorry for you. You are clearly unhappy with your life, and so resentful. Instead of ranting against other people, you should try to make the changes in your life that you need. If you hate your job so much, it's never too late to retrain and do something better.

RhodaBull · 08/02/2017 12:05

Yep, another one here who would be laughing all the way to the cash point if dh bowed out. Judging by recent divorce cases in the news, I'd be laughing if dh went off with someone else, too. Howzat?!!!

Of course I'm happy for dh to stick around, and we are a team. I honestly don't think he'd "like" or "respect" me any more if I went and got a job in a call centre. And why would doing work - any work - give me "something to talk about" as is often trotted out? I read two newspapers a day, listen to the radio, and I am just about to go off and read The New Yorker with my lunch. Ok, I am not always very busy, but I am never bored, and never lack something to talk about!

LaurieMarlow · 08/02/2017 12:08

I had a job where travel did happen at very short notice. My colleague got sent to Russia for a week with 2 days notice. We usually had a week/week and a half notice for long haul trips.

I often attended meetings in Paris at a days notice. Now, these usually didn't necessitate an overnight stay, but early start/late finish, which would have fucked up childcare royally.

Time4adrink · 08/02/2017 12:09

Oh WizardSally glad you are still here... I bet you win employee of the month every time for your focus and dedication to MN. Well done you!!

Don't you get a lunch break?

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 12:10

Travelling at a moment's notice doesn't happen

It does! Not as the norm, obviously - meetings etc are usually scheduled. But I've gone from work to the airport via home to pick up my passport and pack a bag on a few occasions when something blew up/someone was ill. My DH was ill last year with a gastric bug and had to phone a colleague to take his place on a flight that day. Admittedly not that regularly, but he will sometimes come home and say he's got to travel the following day because something has come up unexpectedly.

bulletjournal · 08/02/2017 12:10

I don't know anyone who had to travel at a moment notice (but that's only my industry), trips normally get booked 2 or 3 days in advance. Not last minute, but not that much warning either.

randomsabreuse · 08/02/2017 12:11

Even 8.30 to 5.30 only works if your work is reliably close to your childcare provider... no more than 30 minutes commuting to leave fudge for traffic problems and at those peak hours that is probably well inside the city confines and therefore £££.

Living in the cheaper areas makes commuting take longer, which restricts hours even further (assuming the middle class SAHM not returning to a professional role where a decent sized town was required...)

Time4adrink · 08/02/2017 12:18

Ooh just thought this could be a whole new thing... the stay at home mumsnetter...

Dear MN
AIBU to be a SAHMN after the children are at school?
I know there are some amazing and talented WOHMN who seem to balance career, family and still have time to spray a healthy stream of prejudices and invective on MN () but I'm not sure I'm as talented, wonderful and perfect as they are? Should I just leave MN rather than spreading my lazy unsalaried stupid SAHMN opinions??

NataliaOsipova · 08/02/2017 12:27

Should I just leave MN rather than spreading my lazy unsalaried stupid SAHMN opinions??

I think I should for the minute....it's just struck me that I've been sitting here for ages on the iPad and have failed to wash my DC's school uniform.....

bulletjournal · 08/02/2017 12:30

That's where you prove you are doing it wrong Natalia. People like Sally and I are being paid to be on MN Grin
I arrived too early somewhere and I am bored killing time in a cafe

Alaia5 · 08/02/2017 12:34

Shhh everyone. Please have some respect! Wizard Sally is having a very highly fulfilling day and people are disturbing her with all this nonsense!