To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

wizard the most defensive comment on this entire thread came from you, lest we forget.

You don't sound very happy with your own choices. If you were, you wouldn't feel the need to attack others so vociferously for theirs.

People have given you lots of reasons. Wind your neck in.

Don't worry about Wizard. She wouldn't say this nonsense in RL and I doubt she had DC.

Well if you are fairly happy you don'usually feel the need to be vile to random strangers you know nothing about.

I grew up in Spain on a farm. I didn't just have my mother a home, There were two grandmothers and an aunt as well They held it all together for everyone really and my grandmother particularly was one of the strongest women I ever met. Now I have 4 DC aged 6-14 and we live in entirely different circumstances here in the U.K, but these women are as much of an inspiration to me as any corporate high-flier (though I admire them too).

mugglebumthesecond

All these people saying that sahms need to protect themselves from the 1 in 2 chance of being divorced. I'd be interested to know some statistics of how many divorces there are when both parents work f/t. And then when there is someone taking care of the home, children , hobbies and general management, nurturing relationships and then also having time to take care of themselves.

Oh right, so not only are working mothers shit at parenting, we are also home breakers because we don't do enough "nurturing" or "taking care of the home"?

I refer back to my 1950s housewife comment. Why should the choice to stay at home (which I have no problem with actually, it's just not for me), mean that those women who do go out to work should be made to feel inadequate by the standards of a 1950s housewife ? It is 2017 and we are still such a long way from equality. Women should not be undermining each other like this.

allchattedout thank you for that. Interesting that is your experience. I won't suggest any theories why it might be the case, as I am sure each marriage is different.

And then when there is someone taking care of the home, children , hobbies and general management, nurturing relationships and then also having time to take care of themselves.

Jesus. My jaw is on the floor.

It. Is. 2017.

I am dubious about the concept of "forcing" all women of child-age dcs out to work but free childcare for all. Most of the work created would be in childcare, so I would be leaving my dcs in childcare and then looking after someone else's dcs... But because it's work that's ok.

Everyone is different. We would have a crappy life if I worked full time, as dh has "one of those" jobs where he commutes long hours, travels, has unpredictable working days, and we have never had a single soul to help with childcare. Lots of people on MN live in a public sector universe where all hours are 9-5, maternity/paternity leave do not affect career paths, they have plenty of sick leave etc etc etc. Well, good for you. But presumably you like going to restaurants, shopping, having deliveries... those people's lives are not so "sorted" regarding working partners.

Also agree with person upthread who noted that most women in Indian heritage communities do not work. It is expected that they look after dcs/elderly relatives. Likewise many low income white British women. So the SAHM criticism basically applies to middle class women who it is fair game to call lazy arses/brain dead.

Being a sahm clearly lessens your debating ability. Each response I've had has been personal and vile, 'she probably doesn't have dc'

The tasks sahms of school age children fill their days with are achieved by working mums whilst holding down a job - that is a fact and would clearly make a sahm feel inadequate & defensive when asked to quantify their daily activities.

Utter nonsense like 'I nurture, clean two bathrooms, plan for the weekend, etc.' (substitute yawning face) is just that really, nonsense. I asked a simple question - what do you fill your days with - as I just didn't understand why anyone would be a sahm to school age dc. Now that I've had the answers, they're all things that 1) can and are done by working mums, 2) equate to laziness, 3) are baffling - some have listed thoughts, as in you don't work so you can think (?). I fail to have any respect or understanding for any of the reasons given.

Not understanding or respecting the archaic choice made by those on this thread doesn't make me unhappy with my life, I climb into bed each evening proud of what I achieve and I look forward to getting up every morning to face the challenges of the day (working AND running a home).

Being a sahm is something women fought not to do in the past and here we are today, post after post putting down working mums as being neglectful. It's hideous.

One last question, you know when you buy gifts for your OH, say for a birthday, and it's with his/her money, isn't that odd? If you buy something inexpensive thus saving him/her money, is that a bonus birthday treat? Always wondered.

If it makes anyone feel better, I am city based and we try to specifically employ SAHM going back to work for certain roles. Once you have a foot in a company, you can go to pretty much any position you want - as long as they don't require years of specific training and official qualification, obviously.
They are obviously not going to disappear for maternity leave, but most importantly, after a 10 -15 years break, most have shown a fantastic attitude: they are excited to be back at work, not bored of office politics, of their role within the company. They don't think they know it all because they have been in the job for years, or have done things differently with a previous employer for years. They are keen to learn, and have the open mind to understand they have to learn because things change. A more mature person is also less likely to spend hours on social media, or glued to their phones.

As long as you have the right attitude, taking a break from work doesn't have to mean you will be out of the workplace for ever if you chose to go back. Clearly things are different if you stay at work or if you don't, but you are not a second class citizen if you stay at home with your children.

What funny comments wizard

As s working mum I paid for a cleaner and ironing services. The rest I did myself and as dh works away it was bloody tough.

It's far easier to be a sahm/sahd if one partner works long hours or away. I hated working and using childcare so stopped. Bliss. Sick days holidays all easy and I help take care of my dgs. My dil would love to be a sahm too but bills to pay at the moment.

No one knows what's round the corner and who will divorce or make it.

bring a sahm was what women fought not to do utter bollocks women fought for choices in life.

Sahm of working outside the home are personal choices and each are just as valid as the other.

I do agree on some level with Wizard that it sticks in the craw when SAHP talk about how busy they are.

I'm aiming to make my demanding job work in school hours, which I think in some ways is a terrible idea - having the stress of pick ups, cooking dinner, ferrying kids around, etc with no time in the day to sort anything and no lunch break as I'll be squeezing as much work as possible into fewer hours.

Sahm of working outside the home are personal choices

You make it sound so easy. What if you are financially forced to leave your job as you earn less than childcare would cost, or financially forced to stay as without your wage you'd struggle to put food on the table?

What sort of choice is that?

Haven't rtft. I imAgine sahms do what both partners do when they work, but they are able to do it when their partner isn't around and therefore they get to spend a lot more quality time together.
Plus not having the stress of childcare finding during holidays etc. I'd do it if we could afford it

If anything, it unequalises the relationship between the spouses which can never be healthy long-term

This is what I see with almost all of the SAHM's I know in RL. The ones I know best (family members & close friends) seem to have steadily drifted from being equal partners when they met (both working at the time, incidentally) to a relationship almost from another era, where the woman defers all the big decisions to her H, and seems to spend her time being a virtual skivvy for the rest of her family whilst they go about their 'own' business.

It makes me really sad actually. Yes in an ideal world the status of a SAHM should be seen as equally important in a family as any other, but in reality it doesn't seem to work out that way.

I like to think that my relationship with DH is strong enough that me not working wouldn't change anything, but who knows? That's just another one of many reasons why I wouldn't want to stop working.

And then when there is someone taking care of the home, children , hobbies and general management, nurturing relationships and then also having time to take care of themselves.

And yes my jaw is also on the floor at that comment. I work. I am lucky enough to work flexible hours, but even so, I spend a considerable amount of time out of the house. Despite that, DH and I manage to 'take care' of our home (although it doesn't expect much tbh), children, hobbies and 'nurturing relationships' whatever TF that means...

My husband does not have a concept of "his" money. It is "our" money and he would be horrified at your suggestion that it was otherwise. We are a family unit. Yes, he could have achieved what he has as a single man. He could NOT have achieved it as a father without me being at home for our 4 DC and allowing him the kind of flexibility to build up his companies. He is acutely aware of this. As I said, he employs many people from graduate to MD level, men and women. He is obviously aware of the different choices people make re-work / life balance, childcare arrangements and so on. He would not expect his wife to compensate for his career, take care of his kids and then expect her to go out to work as well because he would see this as wholly unfair.

Sorry that was in response to Wizard (though I don't know why I bother).

Puglife - you have just proven your own point:

I'm aiming to make my demanding job work in school hours, which I think in some ways is a terrible idea - having the stress of pick ups, cooking dinner, ferrying kids around, etc with no time in the day to sort anything and no lunch break as I'll be squeezing as much work as possible into fewer hours.

I do that stuff during the day (food prep/cleaning/grocery shopping etc) so that our evenings are less stressful. If you are at work full time that part of the day is taken care of (pick up until after dinner). If I was at work our dc, dh and I simply would not have the time to enjoy the opportunities we do (lots of sport in this house). It is a choice we have made as a family and what works for us.

In my experience happy people do not need to put others down. Happy people don't need to bitch and criticise and make other people feel worthless. This is one of the nastiest most miserable threads I have read in a while. Is calling other women lazy, stupid, a crap role model etc really a good use of your time? What are you trying to get out of it? You are trying to make someone else feel rubbish about their life choices.

I have been a SAHM for the past 11 years and I am now planning on going back to work. I actually thought of coming onto Mumsnet for some advice but don't think I will bother now, as this thread has demonstrated that women are not interested in supporting each other but just want to put each other down and show how much better they are. I really don't give a shit if someone is a WOHM or a SAHM parent as long as they are a good loving caring parent and I don't understand why there is such animosity.

He would not expect his wife to compensate for his career, take care of his kids and then expect her to go out to work as well because he would see this as wholly unfair.

That's the trouble with threads like this though - it's always impossible for either 'side' to discuss without offending the other. Case in point your comment above - I read that as you having sacrificed yourself, to an extent, having to stay at home so that your H can excel in his career. What about any career you could have had? Who knows how many companies you could have built up with a bit of support? Then you end it by saying he wouldn't expect you to go out to work, as it doing so couldn't possibly be a positive thing.

It makes me uncomfortable that women still think that way. How can we be an 'equal' society when so many people believe that a woman needs to sacrifice her own potential to enable a man to reach his?

Wizard
. I asked a simple question - what do you fill your days with - as I just didn't understand why anyone would be a sahm to school age dc. Now that I've had the answers, they're all things that 1) can and are done by working mums, 2) equate to laziness, 3) are baffling - some have listed thoughts, as in you don't work so you can think

I've not worked for years (ex-pats a lot of the time do couldn't even if I'd wanted to). I have always had cleaners usually several times a week and still do even though the kids are away at Uni. I've never been bored. I the past we have lived in rentals do I've not even had DIY/house things to do. So what have I done we my time,
Done stuff with the kids
Played a shit load of sport. Depending where we were and what time of year it was I'd ski, swim, bike or play tennis. I have never got bored of doing sport. I world literally ski every day if I could.
I usually do a day a week of charity work. I do something I enjoy and usually go for long term commitment.

I also hang out with friends and do other hobbies - I currently do all our DIY / car repair etc as I enjoy it. Otherwise I'd just get someone in.

I may not be changing the world or doing anything extrodanary but I enjoy myself. I keep really busy and I'm usually out the house. I've NEVER EVER found it hard work being a SAH parent. It feels like one big holiday especially as I have cleaners. I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone. I'm quietly getting on with my life and I wouldn't dream of criticizing anyone who chose to work or who chose not to.

I think I would also enjoy working and I'm currently considering going back to work. It wouldn't be for the money. It have to be the right job. Otherwise I might just up my volunteer work.

I know some SAH parents have it a LOT harder than I ever did but generally I don't understand how some of them can claim to be so busy doing housework and chores. There have been times when I've done my own housework and if you get on and do it it really shouldn't take long.

I understand that some kids may need a lot more parental supervision/involvement than others - so that must be harder.

The most important thing is for people to have choices and can choose to do what is right for them and their families.

Wizard

We don't have his or her money whether I'm working or not.
it's just family money, and dh sees it as much his as mine. i'd have earned quite a bit now if I'd been a cook, cleaner, childcare worker, so have earned the money we share, according to dh
Some people don't see their lives in terms of what tasks they perform each day, it doesn't make them lazy or their lives less fulfilling.
I beg to differ about wohp doing the same as sahp, it isn't possible in many cases. That's not to say they don't do the same type of tasks or fit a lot into their none working hours.
I only work pt after being a sahm for 25 years, but don't do half as much as I used to as a sahp.
I'm not talking about cooking, cleaning, domestics and a couple of hours of childcare/ helping with homework.
I used to do twice as much for the family as that's what I enjoyed doing. It would be hard doing those things now during my hours of work. i'm not sure my employer would be happy neither
Maybe, some working parents have learned a special art of time travel being able to be in two different places at once, what utter bollocks.

generally I don't understand how some of them can claim to be so busy doing housework and chores.

When I wasn't working (I took extended maternity leave) I could drag out hoovering the house to last all day sometimes . Probably partly because it's such a boring job I would find myself faffing about and procrastinating constantly. Partly also because I had so much time to kill. Now I will sometimes find I have half an hour to tidy and hoover, for example, and hey presto, I can do it in that time.

The thing is, if you build your whole world around kids, school and DH and then they grow up, leave school go off to uni (and if you were to split up) which happened to a friend, what have you got?

I have worked p/t since my twins were 9 months. I was made redundant and had a short spell at home. I was bored. I love my work, I love my independence and money and I spent years building my career. I can't relate to not working if they can when kids are in school.

But it's not my life and if you enjoy it fair play.

ugh you sound like the sort of person who will always make the best of things. A rare and lovely quality .

I was an ex pat wife for a couple of years and found it very interesting. The new culture etc. I remember the time fondly ( like you I couldn't work, but I did study so can't claim I was properly a SAHM).

Pie - Does life not always involve sacrifice, one way or the other? It's just a case of what the sacrifice is. My DH has sacrificed time with his DC. It is what it is. Of course I'm aware of the whole feminist perspective. However, in OUR circumstances, this is what worked for us.