To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

I'm not suggesting I have the answers but the principle should be, in a welfare state, that we all contribute where able and that we should be prioritising our financial resources to provide for those with the greatest need.

If all these high flying, high earning men earn enough to support non working spouses, then they earn enough to pay the equivalent of tax and NI for their spouses. We sanction JSA claimants for not having the resources to attend interviews but protect higher earners from fully paying their spouses share of social funding and that's morally right ?

I'm not judging anyone who wants to give up work, supported by their spouse, to stay at home until the children are 18 or those who never want to work again. I'm simply suggesting that we implement a tax system that seeks a fair contribution for those who choose not to work and distribute this to benefit those who need not to work. There are plenty of ways to adjust tax and NI rates to ensure this has less impact on those with middle to lower incomes.

My point was never about demonising any individuals choice but simply pointing out that there are wider implications on society both socially and financially from those decisions and we need to find a way to balance them. And that any such attempt to find a balance should protect those with greater needs and vulnerabilities.

@rubyretro what page is that on?

Momma

www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

You'll need a pay slip, P60 or passport handy.

deliberately choosing not to work isn't something that should be considered as an acceptable option

If I have understood you right you are suggesting that I go out to work so that my taxes can then contribute to free childcare so that everyone can go out to work? So what if there are no childcare costs - why on earth would I get someone else to do something I have the capacity to do myself i.e. look after my own children?What happens if I decide to dothat "job"?Who pays my salary then?

If all these high flying, high earning men earn enough to support non working spouses, then they earn enough to pay the equivalent of tax and NI for their spouses (or women maybe?)
But they do alreadythrough their much higher tax contributions

Blistory - i think the high earning workers are probably paying enough in tax to cover their sah partner. That doesn't include the huge amount of VAT they're paying as well if they spend extravagantly.

Thanks Ruby

And doesn't address what discourages lower earners, where one still chooses to stay home, from both quitting work cos the tax on his minimum wage job is too high

I'm a sahm to secondary school kids. I was main wage earner from their birth throughout primary. I'm retired from my career now (due to health problems) and I love my sah life.
I refuse to apologise, I've done my time and now my family - and some me-time - comes first. We can afford it, I've built up huge savings AND paid massive tax bills over the years so I think I've done my bit.
Oh and another thing! People like me - pta, volunteers, etc - are part of the social glue that holds communities together.
Op don't feel guilty, find a hobby, enjoy life.

It very much depends on your circumstances. I was made redundant and became a SAHM for two years, and it drove me nuts. I effectively became a house keeper - cooking, cleaning, chauffeuring, sorting out the bills, etc. Etc. - and then up the next day to do it all again. Knowing I was totally reliant on my (now) ex for money was soul destroying. Getting back to work was the best thing for me. Financial independence, and the feeling of contributing to the community, and being useful and good at something other than ironing is fantastic. When the marriage broke down I didn't need to rely on anyone but myself. My partner's ex didn't work, even when they were struggling for money, and she now has a part time job, but she's always asking for money - for a new car, a new bathroom, and so it goes. Their kids are 17 and 13.

He is generous and pays fully towards the kids. He's still paying the whole mortgage on the house he doesn't live in anymore because he wants a good home for the kids. She has qualifications and experience, but even though she wanted out of the marriage, she doesn't want to leave the trappings of it.

at the thought of paying tax via your spouse that one did make me chuckle.

This thread hasn't offered anything in the way of providing an understanding of why an adult would choose to not work when they are able other than: 1) laziness, 2) opportunity, 3) an incredibly understanding spouse.

I'm not surprised you're all so defensive, you probably try and justify this lifestyle to yourselves every day when you wake up with a whole day of nothing meaningful to do that the working mums don't achieve whilst maintaining a job.

People have said it repeatedly and you're either obtuse or goady or both. Cost of childcare vs income aside: spending more time w your children, making the lives of your family easier and less hectic, doing things to keep the house running during the day means after school & weekends are spent on family time can chores & errands. But you knew that.

And that is all absolute nonsense

But then you knew that

This thread hasn't offered anything in the way of providing an understanding of why an adult would choose to not work when they are able other than: 1) laziness, 2) opportunity, 3) an incredibly understanding spouse

Bambambini

"Please. Will the SAHM just stop being so sanctimonious."

Yes, those horrible sanctimonious SAHMs - let them burn in hell. Nothing like letting your disgust clearly show.

Nothing I have posted could be construed as disgust at SAHM. Reread my posts bambambini please.

Anyway...I have the solution Blistory. The gov should provide 100% tax relief on childcare costs. They are an essential and genuine cost arising from employment or self-employment and should be fully tax deductible.

They will never do that though. It would cost too much. .

wizard "This thread hasn't offered anything in the way of providing an understanding of why an adult would choose to not work when they are able other than: 1) laziness, 2) opportunity, 3) an incredibly understanding spouse. "

You know this is totally not true. You sound very jealous.

Goady then!

All these people saying that sahms need to protect themselves from the 1 in 2 chance of being divorced. I'd be interested to know some statistics of how many divorces there are when both parents work f/t. And then when there is someone taking care of the home, children , hobbies and general management, nurturing relationships and then also having time to take care of themselves.

Also I'm sure more women with larger families stay at home.

What percentage of the older Asian communities have mothers staying at home? Or are you talking about middle class white people?

All these people saying that sahms need to protect themselves from the 1 in 2 chance of being divorced. I'd be interested to know some statistics of how many divorces there are when both parents work f/t. And then when there is someone taking care of the home, children , hobbies and general management, nurturing relationships and then also having time to take care of themselves

I don't know about statistics. I can only go on anecdotal evidence from working as a family lawyer. No, I don't think being a SAHM reduces your risk for divorce at all. I acted for plenty of SAHMs, all of whom had made great sacrifices in running the home, providing for H and kids etc. Actually, a lot of the cases that ended up going to court rather than settling early were ones involving SAHMs because there was a major dispute about earning capacity. Often the wife's legal fees were being paid by the parents.

If anything, it unequalises the relationship between the spouses which can never be healthy long-term.

I'm a sahm because we have a severely disabled child and it is better that one of us is always available. Childcare is non existent for children like our child. We can't even find suitable people to do the respite care we receive funding for. The is nothing lazy about having a child that is awake half the night every night and requires constant close supervision when awake.

I really don't think society is totally reliant on those who don't work to keep voluntary work afloat.
Not only is our PTA predominately run by WOHP, but (and I realise this is anecdotal ) in my office of 10 people in work we have 2 governors, a 'Brown owl', a sports club treasurer, and a kid's football coach. Our local cubs is led by a FT WOHP, as are several other sports clubs.

My experience therefore is that WOHP are equally (if not more)likely to volunteer.

"We can't even find suitable people to do the respite care we receive funding for."
That sounds incredibly hard :(

Wizard - you need to reign in that jealousy and bitterness a tad. I appreciate that i have it good compared to my friends.

Bounty, actually it may be cost effective if you switch other things to fund it.

Instead of maternity grants, income support for none working parents and any child related assistance from the state there could be just SMP/MA for all new mums then state subsidised or tax relief on child care.

Then everyone has the same choice, they can choose to have children knowing they will get a standard maternity leave any none working beyond that point has to be self funded. Those who want to work can use the childcare.

you probably try and justify this lifestyle to yourselves every day when you wake up with a whole day of nothing meaningful to do that the working mums don't achieve whilst maintaining a job.

Lol. Yesterday I woke up and had a little cuddle with my 11mo. We had a nice leisurely breakfast together, then he napped while I got ready and did a few household chores. Then we went out for a few hours, nice walk in the park and met with friends. Then we came home, he napped again for 2 hours while I had my lunch and did some writing with a cat on my lap. When he woke, we played, had cuddles and he watched me cook dinner. Dinner, bath time, and in bed by 7. Nice evening with DH and I.

Nice meaningful day IMO.

I go back to work in 2 months. I have to as work in public sector and have to pay back my enhanced pay if I don't go back for 3 months. However I may well leave after that. I'm as yet undecided.

I don't know why people have to be so fucking horrible about what other women do. It doesn't affect you remotely. Either way!!!