To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

HelloFreedom - very well put. Feminism has indeed been hijacked by capitalism.

hello I might agree with you as I sip my tea in a very cold train!!!

But, nah, no wage slave here.

I earn tons of wonga for doing something I love. And something I find pretty easy in the grand scheme of things. I left him indoors filling the dishwasher!

Carl I've been to Salford! And yes, I can share your pain....

In the spirit of reciprocity, my morning downside is being stuck in with a BT engineer regaling me with long tales of his jolly japes in the TA....

If you want to SAH then SAH. If you want to or have to go to work then do that! As long as you aren't being coerced (either explicitly or covertly) into doing something that you are unhappy with then what is the issue?

My Mum stayed at home with us until we were all early teens and then forged a career for herself. She is still working and loving that career well past conventional retirement age. My Dad who had the interesting, time consuming career when we were kids in now retired and bored! It doesn't read that by staying at home past the early years that you sacrifice any meaningful career!

But why do you all want to work so hard, so many hours, then all the house and kid stuff - the stress, exhaustion etc - if you don't have to? Especially when the majority of women still do the lion share if the house and kid stuff?

Why are folk so desperate to see me and my husband work longer hours and make both our lives much harder and more stressful?

There are pros and cons to both choices - you work with what you have to and can.

Bambambini - governments in Western capitalist democracies have successfully convinced many adults that the more tax they pay and the more they consume, the more worthy they are as humans.

Properly rich people know this is crap and use tax lawyers.

I like working hard bam.

I'm naturally highly energetic and ambitious. People often describe me as having a lot of fizz.

Plus I really like what it do. And I'm pretty good at it.

And in truth I don't do lots of domestic stuff, ironing and all that. I don't much like it. Nor does DH.

We're not stressed. Nor are our DC.

Exactly Bobochic

bobo don't talk to me about tax!!!!

This year the IRS and the IR have between them kept 101% of my earnings!!! I mean I know I'll get it back but WTAF.

That said, I don't mind paying my taxes - hospitals, schools yadda yadda.
And I never joined one of those schemes. I know too many people who did and have spent the last few years waiting to see if the IR declare then invalid! Who needs that?

I'd love to know how much these men earn who have the SAH wives...

I'm guessing in most cases having a SAHP is a luxury only the privileged can afford.

All these SAHMs going on about how they don't miss a moment of their child's life, how they are there 24/7 to comfort their children and not 'palm them off and provide lovely clean homes and nutritious meals and have the wonderful family centred weekends should take a moment to realise that a lot of the WOHP have no choice in the way they have to work - they don't have choices like you.

I would love to be at home with my DS more and have no job related stress and all the other negative factors about having jobs that you list but unfortunately I have to go to work - bills don't get paid and food doesn't get bought unless I do.

I know in all cases it's not this black and white but before trying to put WOHPs down just take a second to realise how bloody lucky you are to have the choice to not work when a lot of others don't.

Carl See that's great. I too sound like you. I don't work but my energies go into other things (volunteering, education). It doesn't make me any less of a person. I still make a valid contribution to society and like you I enjoy it.

Stealth - I'm drawn to threads like this for the very reason that I do think about the impact of our family "model" on our children as they get older. For instance, my son is now choosing his GCSE options. He's in a very academic school but nevertheless, I was quite shocked when he turned to me and said, "Well yes I love art, but let's face it I'm not going to make money or support a family out of that am I?" He is only 13. I wonder if my daughter will feel the same when the time comes - probably not.

I genuinely can't think of any couples we know who genuinely split childcare /housework 50/50. In my case with DH, aiming for anything close to that would have been a joke tbh so I never bothered. There are some men who are highly motivated extreme workaholic types and he is one of them. I admit I have had to compensate or "balance him out" in terms of the impact on our DC. If I'd been working too, I think things may have fallen apart.

However, the flip side is that DH is extremely committed in terms of providing for his family and that's not a bad thing. He told me when we got married (not that I paid much attention at the time) that he wanted to make a "generational change" for any children we might have. At the age of 45 he has achieved this in financial terms. Tbh he could have retired years ago if he knew how to stop.

This scenario has worked for us because I am honest with myself. Yes, if I'd been working, there may have been some "status" attached to that which there isn't to being a mother and wife. But the truth is, I would have hated to have someone else picking up to DC from school. I would have become very resentful in that situation and it would have stressed me out more than the lack of career status. So SAH is the choice I made and I don't regret it.

People on here will say that our set-up is 1950s and so on, but the fact is, when it works, it works. I feel highly privileged to have been able to have the freedom to bring up my DC without having to rely on anyone else or worry about our financial security. DH has complete respect for the role I've taken and it wouldn't occur to him that I'm any less equal to him because I don't bring money into the home. Each year he is happy to pay £ millions in tax because he knows that the money he makes does not define him as more "worthy" than anyone else.

We have both just been honest with each other about what motivates us and supported each other to this end and I hope our DC will understand that one day.

hellofreedom thank you very much for your post!

Who is it that gets to decide what sort of work is valid and what isn't? The denigration of childcare as a valid life choice is the reason why many nursery workers are so underpaid. Do those of you who use nurseries know what childcare workers get paid? Are you happy with that?
And the comments on here about voluntary work are just nasty and completely misunderstand the contribution voluntary work makes to society - I have done a few voluntary roles (no, not just PTA, before you jump in) which have benefited my community and years later people are still thanking me for the help I gave them. Just because a job does not involved a financial transaction does not make it worthless.

I worked full-time for 10 years before having children. Some of the jobs were fulfilling but some were terribly dull. Unfortunately not everyone can have a highly paid, fulfilling job that they love - I know that's what lots of you on here are saying you have, but its not an option for everyone. After I worked in the public sector for a few years, and looked around me, I realised that a lot of jobs are paper-shuffling and the world would not end if those jobs did not exist. After having children I realised that I was a bloody good mum and I did not want to go back to shuffling paper and pay someone else to raise my own children. Great if you have a wonderful non-paper-shuffling satisfying flexible well-paid job, perfect, I am happy for you, but that was not the reality for me.
And yes fast forward a few years and my 'career' whatever that was has suffered whilst my husband is in a great job, and because I am a woman it is seen as my own fault for being short-sighted and lazy and 'living off someone else' (because what, he should have been paying me a salary to raise those children? A great partnership that would be.)

We live in a capitalist society where it benefits society as a whole if everyone is in a 'job' earning money and spending it on goods to create more jobs. If you step out of that system and say that you want to do things a different way you get a load of shit on your head.

Getahaircut

Well, that sounds great, it's good you're happy with you balance and choices.

thedc naturally it doesn't make you less of a person.

I would never say so.

I too do a fair bit of voluntary work, which I enjoy and feel is important ( though sometimes I wonder if that isn't capitalism + patriarchy right there in action: get women to do really important stuff for free!).

Carl would you work that job you love for half the pay? A quarter? No pay at all?

Is the money you get and lifestyle you enjoy intrinsic to your enjoyment of your job?

hello interesting question.

It's certainly a job that a lot of people do for fuck all money. In fact most.

Would I? I think I'd do certain aspects of it, yes. It's a vocation I guess.

But ultimately I do like earning lots of money - no point pretending otherwise .

For example, I'm on a cold train to Salford with absolutely no guarantee that I will come away with anything concrete today.

I am not being paid for this meeting. I may never be paid for the project I'm trying to get off the ground. Though I'm hopeful...

So if folk won 10 million on the Lottery, would they continue as they are - doing the same job and hours?

I'd hate to win the lottery tbh (a really big win that is), never done it.

bam yes, I would. In fact with that sort of dosh behind me, I'd take it up a gear ( and not be on my way to bloody Salford ).

I don't need to work for the money. I'd be lying if I said I did.

I am a single parent - if I don't work will you pay my mortgage Bambi?

I am also good at my job even though it is stressful and I studied for 5 years to do it - a lot of work went into that - why give it up?

Ghosty -

why would ii pay your mortgage? Did i say you shouldn't work?

Ok Carl. You would work for nothing then and sacrifice material comfort to do it.

Well then you're not a wage slave. Like me, you're just a small time beneficiary of a deeply flawed and immoral system that pits working people against each other, exploits the world's poor and batters the natural world. Congratulations.

Signing out now...gotta whole load of enjoyable but ultimately useless shit to do to keep this rotten capitalist show on the road.

Come the revolution.

Why give it up? That job could go to someone else who actually needed the money. You could then do something equally worthy but in a voluntary capacity thereby adding an even greater contribution to society. As someone saI'd up thread doing something worthwhile does not have to have a financial transaction attached to it.

And the comments on here about voluntary work are just nasty and completely misunderstand the contribution voluntary work makes to society - I have done a few voluntary roles (no, not just PTA, before you jump in) which have benefited my community and years later people are still thanking me for the help I gave them. Just because a job does not involved a financial transaction does not make it worthless.

This is an attitude that prevails in a lot of places sadly.

I combine being a lazy SAHM with being the chair of a voluntary group that provide afterschool care and holiday playschemes. the childcare offered is good quality, but low cost. If it wasn't low cost then I suppose I could get paid for doing it, but then the people that use it/need it the most wouldn't be able to afford it. We have a better inspection report than 2 other local provisions and there are still people who turn their nose up becuase it's "only volunteers".

I still fail to understand why I'm setting my children, especially my daughters, such a bad example. I worked. I went to college whilst juggling toddler twins when their Dad fucked off. I've set up a life that means we (me and my kids) would be absolutely fine financially if DH fucked off. I've made sure I have a pension. I had my 'dream' job and then cutbacks and changes to the education system slowly eroded my love for it. At the same time DH was offered an opportunity that, over the last 5 years, has allowed us to pay off our second mortgage and add to our savings in a way that as a teenager living with my grandparents I could only have dreamed of. At 40 DH will be working a m-f job that is basically his hobby with the freedom to cut his hours should he chose. I won't be working, but will be enjoying running the playscheme/asc alongside spending whatever time I want with my children without having to worry about my employers (with 2 with health issues that is important) and I can also volunteer in school to do what actually used to be my job one day a week and (imo) make more of an impact than I was able too previously.

We'll both be enjoying a freedom to chose work/life balance that suits us after a manic 4/5 years. We'll have achieved that despite the fact I come from a home that means I should be a statistic - abusive, drunk & druggie parents who abused and neglected their kids before being brought up by skint grandparents. DH was widowed with a toddler at 22 and had to change his career completely as he worked nights.

What is a bad example in that? Genuinely? What is the bad example in working hard, investing well, accepting the bits that have been luck and showing that once you get to a certain point in life if it all comes together you get to have choices and choices is the biggest freedom in the world.