To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

elektrawoman - once you've worked out how the capitalist circus of goods and services is being merry-go-rounded in order to keep people in jobs that are fundamentally meaningless, it's much easier to feel secure in your own choices.

I get a major glow from bypassing big business and buying direct from producers.

I really don't understand why people get so upset about others' "choices" (the " " to recognise that for a great many people, there isn't a viable choice).

I work PT (school hours mainly) but most of my friends are SAHMs with school age children. They have lots more time than me to do their own thing, but that's their choice and I hope they enjoy themselves and are fulfilled, just as I enjoy the extra income that comes from working.

However, I would find it quite odd if they claimed they didn't have free time, because clearly it doesn't take from 9am to 3.15pm to do the chores. They go to the gym, meet for coffees, pursue hobbies as well. BUT, just because they have extra time to do nice stuff, it doesn't mean they should or could find a job to fill that time.

1. School hours jobs are rare. If you don't need the money and don't have a burning desire to work, you probably wouldn't want to miss weekday afternoons with your kids for the sake of working.

1. Financially, it may not be worth going back to work if the only work available is relatively low paid.

However, it's worth considering the above in advance if you think you might want to work when DC are all at school - higher paid, flexible, PT, school hours type jobs are generally only available to those that have stayed in the work force. Maybe not even then, but pretty much never if you've taken years out.

Thankfully all my friends are lovely, regardless of working situation, and we don't judge each other, just appreciate the good things in each others lives.

I'm no capitalist, and don't see working for money as a moral issue, but I do think that the model of high earning long hours man and woman by default left with the home and children is a reflection of societal expectations, and does perpetuate the idea that only women's lives need to bend or change when children come along.
I know a couple of SAHDs with school age kids, so they do exist, but overwhelmingly its the women that are expected to cut their hours/take jobs way below their abilities/pick up the domestic slack.
I don't judge individual who make their lives work in whatever way suits them, but as well as being individuals, we are also all making choices (the men as well) which create the perceived norm.
All jobs don't have to be high powered and crazy hours-mine isnt. I work 4 days a week, but as a lone parent I have made big sacrifices. Its just the way it is.
Had I been in a position where I was planning a family with a husband, I would never accept a set up whereby his choices and freedoms remained essentially the same, and he was able to soar in his career, and I kept the domestic show on the road. I would never sign up for that.
I actually agree that rather than tell girls they can "have it all" we tell boys that they can have lots, but that if they want a family they will have to expect their careers to maybe be curtailed for a few years, and and a lot of their free time taken up with domestic chores
And no, I don't think feminism is about having choices. Its about having equality.

As my username suggests, I am married to a soldier. Married at 21, we now have 3 children. I am what some of you would probably call stupid. I had a great career which I forged in the short space of time before we married. When we got married, I moved overseas and gave up my career to start a family. I now live in the U.K. again and spend my time taking care of young DC's (one at school, two who are younger). I don't have my own pension pot, I don't have savings, I don't know if I'd be lucky enough to be able to get a job in my old profession again after all the time out I've had. We move regularly. We live away from all of our friends & family. My husband is occasionally sent on operations which can be up to 7 months at a time but even when he's not on operations, he frequently is out of the country or working away.

I'm not sure whether me working will make sense for us as a family over the coming years. The army class me as a dependent and I suppose in many ways you could say I am. My job is to be a homemaker and when so much about our children's lives will change (moving home, moving schools, dad coming and going) I see it as most important that I am there throughout to support them. Yes, if DH left, I'd be fucked. But then he has made a commitment to our family and so have I and we very much love each other. Life could through any curveball at any couple, I don't spend my life planning for the worst. I live, I take care of my family, and if it all falls apart then I'll deal with that if/when it arises.

I agree with what someone said upthread about there being no perfect choices. This is at the heart of all the ill feeling and needs to be acknowledged before we can move on from it.

The world of work makes very little concession to the world of family and does little to accommodate it (I acknowledge that at the same time we have progressed in recent years and some sectors are better than others).

It's very, very difficult to find a fulfilling job that pays well, that's flexible, that gives you the time you need to raise a family, that respects the energy that that requires. If you have a job like that, hold on to it with every fibre of your being and remember that you are privileged in a way that most of us can't fathom.

For the rest of us, something's got to give. Often that means one partner 'does work' and one partner 'does family'. Or it means that people run themselves ragged trying to do both. Neither of these are optimal choices.

Because these options aren't perfect, they can be attacked and they can be defended (as we see from this thread). It doesn't get us anywhere. All it does is distract from us trying to fight for something better.

This thread is horrible. I never knew that by sacrificing working, living on a tight budget so I could stay at home to look after my dc would make other women think so little of me.

I find it shocking how many look down on sahms but are happy to use them for childcare.

I find it shocking how many have relatives available to help with childcare but look down on women who don't.

I find it disgusting how many of us who stay at home because we have DC with sn are looked down on for just trying to do our best.

It's unbelievable that those with interesting, stimulating, well paid jobs can't see that many other women would have to work in boring, low paid monotonous jobs that would barely cover the cost of childcare.

As for the comment about what we talk to our dhs about! Seriously...How insulting.

I have respect for working parents...I have no doubt it's bloody hard work. Why on earth can others not realise we all have such different set ups and are just trying to do our best regardless.

So here are some of the people I feel sorry for ...

The WOHM who'd love part time hours but whose workplace won't accommodate here.

The SAHM who sacrifices her own career for her husband and is left high and dry when he files for divorce at 50.

The WOHM who gives her all to her job and then realises, much later, everything she missed along the way.

The SAHM who'd love to have kept working, but didn't earn enough for this to be feasible.

The WOHM who's constantly exhausted and has lost any semblance of 'me time' trying to do it all.

The SAHM who feels lost and purposeless when her kids leave home and has no prospect of getting back on the career ladder.

See where I'm going here?

Well said formerbabe. That's what I've noticed, how some of those who have friends, family and husbands around to help have been so unkind towards those who don't have any support from family/friends. It's easy when you're in a bubble surrounded by loads of people who want to help you, to point the finger at those who don't have a support network and make out as though they aren't pulling their weight because they're not working. People need to learn to show some empathy at times and see things from another point of view.

Totally agree formerbabe - that question, "What do you talk about to your DHs in the evening, a new cleaning fluid?" is probably the most misogynistic comment I've come across on MN.

that question, "What do you talk about to your DHs in the evening, a new cleaning fluid?" is probably the most misogynistic comment I've come across on MN.

Agreed. And an example of how women have internalised the (fundamentally patriarchal) message of capitalism that only paid work counts for anything.

I feel sorry for those who feel their existence is only justified if they are working and earning. So many other ways that you can contribute to society and to your family without having to earn a wage. If working suits your family, great, and if it doesn't, great!

juliej75 what a terrific post! You must be a great friend. At last a logical well thought out post.

All you SAH mothers, all you SAH Dads. Everyone that works for the benefit of others and makes small unseen sacrifices day in day out to keep their families and communities safe, healthy and functioning well.

All you volunteers, all you who accompany school children on field trips, who donate your time to food banks, who look after vulnerable frail elderly relatives and neighbours.

All you people that stick 2 fingers up to the system and decide to live as much on your own terms as you can so that you can prioritise the people you love and live with.

You are no less a person, no less a woman for what you do. Let no one tell you you deserve no respect.

Do whatever makes you and your family happy

I've spent my morning trying to get through to the hospital whilst the toddler sots on my lap trying to brush my hair and kissing me. I wouldn't rather be with anyone else (except if they have coffee). Am i setting him an example of being a lazy scrounging anti-feminist who's dad will leave her high and dry at 50 when he leaves her for the secretary? Or am I teaching him that when the chips were down he comes first and for OUR family that means someone being a SAHP
I earnt more than DH with better career options but he knew I didn't want to leave the baby as was and will openly admit he finds having DS on his own all day exhausting and doesn't know how i do it etc.

To wind people up further, because DH's salary isn't great we get tax credits help as well as DLA for DS which enable me to be at home. We've both worked since we were on our teens, as did our parents. We're a family with a strong work ethic bit right now my job is here.

I have Twp friends who will be going back into intense prpffesional careers and that's right for their families. Their boys are just as loved, just as cherished.

Its not complicated - most families dp the best to do what is best for their circumstances and most of the time, especially online, we don't actually know what they are

Thank goodness for some sensible posts at last. I don't know why women have to be so critical of each other. There have been some nasty misogynistic posts on here. The way our society is set up is not ideal for either WOHM or SAHMs and we should be supporting each other not tearing others down.

Exactly elektrawoman unless you're incredibly lucky whatever choice you make is likely to involve some compromise. I never understand why people have to be so nasty about other people's choices. It just seems so obvious that different situations are going to benefit different families and one person's choice isn't a criticism of yours.

Am i setting him an example of being a lazy scrounging anti-feminist who's dad will leave her high and dry at 50 when he leaves her for the secretary? Or am I teaching him that when the chips were down he comes first and for OUR family that means someone being a SAHP

You aren't doing either. You're doing what works for you and your family.

That's all.

one person's choice isn't a criticism of yours.

It absolutely isn't, but it is when people say things along the lines of:

"I'm a sahp because I don't want someone else bringing my kids up/want my dc to know they come first"

"I work because I want my DC to see a strong working female role model/it's naive not to keep your financial independence"

Both statements are implicit criticisms of the other's choices, let's not lie about that.

When someone asks and you feel like you need to justify yourself, just say, 'yes, I am a SAHM. I love it, I'm so lucky!

Different lives, different needs, different choices.

When you are on your death bed and someone asks you if you'd made the right choice being happy and home with your kids when they were children, I doubt you will say no. You can always return to work when the children are in secondary school or university. Screw people's opinions, life is about trying to find happiness

"I'm a sahp because i... want my dc to know they come first"

The bit everyone seems to miss is that hopefully works for all parents.

Whether you work for money or mental health or enjoyment it's going to be the best option for the family and the children.

I'm clarifying cosvo know o pit the "my son comes first" comment but thevppont is for is (medically complex child, lots of hospitalisations) that's someone being home all the time.
For my friend of she gave up work it would affect the type of life she wants to give her son so working is the best for him

There is a lot I agree with on this thread, and some I don't, from both sides.

However, I cannot see why WOHP keep being portrayed as not putting their children first, missing out on key moments, and in some comments "brought up/raised by someone else".

There is enough guilt involved in WOH and juggling all responsibilities (which still in 2017 mainly fall to the woman), without random internet folk making WOHM feel like shit, like they are bad parents, or selfish capitalist wageslaves.

Please. Will the SAHM just stop being so sanctimonious. Both sides cope with ill children, hospital appointments, laundry and parcel delivery. There is just an easier time for this for those that also do not WOH.

Personally, I think that looking after children under 5 is a full time job and is exhausting. But come school age, I would struggle to fill my time and feel fulfilled. Whether I choose to or need to work (usually bit of both) doesn't mean that I am abandoning my children to go to work.

I have been both sahm and wohm and have felt much more judged as the former. As some previous posters have said, it tends to be wohm with free grandparent care, teacher husbands or flexible from home work/husbands. Not a single one miss the school assemblies. Not everyone has those options.

I chose to go back after more than a decade at home with 5 DC. I do 2 long days but sometimes have to do 5 long days. I do feel really guilty in the holidays or when the kids are ill etc. It's a horrible feeling.

In an ideal world I would always be sahm if there weren't so many financial risks and it was valued and respected. But part time is nice too. Especially if you can have sim flexibility. Unfortunately mamy low wage jobs aren't this way hence I had to retrain.

Please. Will the SAHM just stop being so sanctimonious

Perhaps everyone who's sanctimonious could stop being sanctimonious rather than it being based on your employment status

I work part time in a job I'm overqualified for. I feel judged on it too