AIBU regarding theatre experience?

[WildBelle]

I took my DDs to the theatre last night as a treat. I was up to my neck in uni work all xmas holidays so we didn't really go out and do much, so I got us tickets to see a show that I knew they'd both love. I hope I don't offend anyone with this post, I have a dd with a disability so that's the last thing I want to do.

Throughout the first half there was someone in the audience who kept singing happy birthday VERY loudly. This ramped up significantly in the second half, it was pretty much constant and very distracting, and then was accompanied by someone else who was making very loud noises (and sounded quite distressed). i am assuming that they were older children or adults with learning difficulties. Now don't get me wrong, I am completely behind the idea of people with disabilities having access to theatre or anything else, but in the second half particularly the noises coming from that direction were so loud that it was impossible to hear what was going on on stage.

If someone had a baby that was crying, they would have taken them out to avoid disturbing everyone else. I can't help thinking that the carers should have done something about it, particularly when it escalated in the second half. I personally feel disppointed that the show was ruined a bit by not being able to hear, as a single parent it's not something I can afford to do that often. There was probably getting on for 1000 people in the theatre and they would have all been affected by the noise levels.

I probably sound horrible and I really don't mean to, but AIBU?

Two of the shows middle son was in are two of ds1's favourites. The second one there was no way that ds1 could have seen it during tech (European premiere of a big show - far too much stress & difficulties still going on) but I did wonder about the first one as that went from venue to venue - quick run through then all go (ds2 was at a number of venues).

I don't know - it always seemed a shame he couldn't see his brother - there's no way he could manage a regular performance.

The below might be interesting - The Lowry theatre in Manchester actually has an "Involuntary Noise Policy" to cover such situations. (Link if you're interested: www.thelowry.com/plan-your-visit/access-information/involuntary-noise-policy/

"The Lowry will not ask a disabled patron making an involuntary noise to leave a performance however we have a duty of care to understand where the noise is coming from, why the noise is being made, and what we may be able to do to assist the person making the noise."

and

"If the patron is not satisfied with the above response the House Manager should inform the patron it is illegal to discriminate against anyone with a disability or those who care for them, with reference to the Equality Act 2010, therefore The Lowry will not ask a person making involuntary noises to move unless they and/or their Personal Assistant are happy to do so.

Depending on availability, it may be possible to offer to move the people/parties making a complaint."

But it was in the 'it's a shame' category - nothing more than that.

I not actually sure he'd manage a relaxed performance either tbh - although I might give it a go if the tickets were cheap.

I do feel a bit sorry for theatre staff in these situations, as they are always in danger of being in the wrong in someone's eyes. Equally, though, I feel for the OP - it is bloody annoying to have paid for seats to have the behaviour of someone else ruin your experience.

I had a similar (yet totally unrelated, if that makes sense!) experience a couple of months ago when I took my kids to a children's theatre workshop. There was clear age guidance given of 5-12, so it wasn't unreasonable that the format was that the kids could sit and concentrate (with some participation) for an hour. A woman came and brought what I would guess to be a 3 year old and an 18 month old (walking but still in a baby grow). The 18 month old made a continuous noise and was clearly disrupting proceedings for everyone else there....but at various moments she tried to stick him on the boob to placate him. And I felt for the staff as, yes, while they should have felt able to ask her to leave because her underage child was being noisy enough to spoil the thing for every other paying customer, I could fully understand why they didn't want to appear to be targeting a breastfeeding mother. I suspect the same applies to the staff at the OP's theatre. They were in a real tricky position.

The point about relaxed performances is well made and more should be made of the potential demand for them. Funnily enough, I considered booking one the other day for something that would be perfect for my older child but that the smaller one might find difficult. In the end, having read the fine print of how they defined a "relaxed performance" I didn't, because I felt like it was a bit of an "abuse" (for want of a better word) of the system; when I thought about it, I decided these things weren't put on for NT kids who are just a bit too young and that I might be depriving a child with genuine needs of that place. But - maybe they should be advertised slightly more widely, which in turn would encourage greater demand and would make theatre more accessible more generally for people with disabilities? Happy to be shouted down on this, that said - a genuine question rather than anything else.

Interesting Eggys

When I was a student I worked in a cinema and I faced this as a 19 year old. We had a group of people with learning disabilities and their carers in, and the noise was fairly bad with people shouting st the scream and screaming. As the newest member of staff i was sent in, sigh, with my torch to deal with it after numourous complaints,.

I went, I shit myself, I shone my torch and asked if they would be really nice and be quiet for other people and made the sssh motion with my fingers to my lips and they did for awhile, I had to go back and control it. The carers just sat there and did nothing. It was a packed cinema too.

I don't think you're being unreasonable, because yes it's distracting and yes staff can deal with it if they choose. I did and I was 19 and quite shy, so do can others.

It is a really tricky one.

I would have had to leave the auditorium, because I would not have been able to cope with the unexpected noise due to my own disability. (Same reason I don't go to autism-friendly showings of things, I don't cope with people not sticking to the theatre 'rules', so a relaxed performance really wouldn't be great for me.)

So what you potentially have here is patrons with one manifestation of disability making the show inaccessible to patrons with another manifestation of disability.

Which disability should be accommodated? I don't think there's an easy answer.

I have to say that the Lowry is one of the better theatres for being disability friendly.

I think you were right not to buy the ticket Natalia (or if you did maybe but it & go last minute of there was still availability).

I have sympathy with the production companies because the costs involved with big productions are so high (which was why I was thinking of the highly impractical tech run - as it wouldn't cost them - I should have asked ds2 his view first - he would have told me I was being an idiot )

I don't take ds1 to the theatre as his behaviour is too unpredictable & too noisy - but it is something he would like and we would go if him makings noise or needing to be taken out didn't affect people who had spent £200 on tickets.

Auyocorrect mangled that - I was trying to say maybe you could have phoned last minute & got any remaining tickets Natalia / that way you wouldn't have been preventing anyone who had a greater need from buying the ticket

Have you tried a box Devil? Sometimes you can pick the box up cheaper than you would think, your ds wouldn't be crowded by others and you can get out of the seating bit into the corridor at the back of the box if he gets overwhelmed or upset without having to stress about climbing over or being tutted at by other people.

Relaxed performances are good, if people need them...ie like the reduced noise levels etc.
But IMHO people often suggest them as segregation in the same way people suggest special schools. To get noisy people away from them. Yet it's OK for noisy people to be at a performance for people with autism..who may not like noise..or for disruptive kids to be with other kids with disabilities, as long as they are away from NT kids.

Some people may find relaxed performances a relief. But that's because they know they aren't welcome in society if they make involuntary noise.

I think we are in danger of forgetting why relaxed performances were set up. It wasn't as segregation.

I have sympathy for people as noone likes being disturbed.

But there should really be an awareness that it won't happen that often and as manic said some people really couldn't access things otherwise. I think people have lost sight of this in their concern for their own enjoyment.

The lowry theatre rules are very impressive. Manics poat was spot on.

Even when I had no connection to additional needs I'd never have dreamed if complaining about a one off disturbance by someone with additional needs.

It would make me ashamed. It's sad that society is overwhelmingly not like this.

Just this one posters humble opinion.

I think there's some really interesting points raised here. Listening to what Jason Mansford says in the clip posted earlier and the general consensus is that people don't mind some disturbance. I don't - excluding general rude chatting and mobile phone use. But what he's talking about and what happened last night was different.

I go to the theatre a lot, about four times a month. Last nights performance was different because it was so disruptive and at least one child was getting zero enjoyment or benefit from it.

I've also taken my son to Relaxed Performances which he doesn't like. He is so rigid with rules that he can't cope when people break them.

I like the idea of a Relaxed Performance where big adjustments to the production aren't always necessary but audiences don't have to stress about people with disabilities making noise. I don't think that would be a big financial hardship for one Saturday matinee on a touring show running at a theatre between one to four weeks.

I wonder if we're going about it all wrong?

I know that a stadium near here has private rooms which are usually used for corporate businesses/private groups at football matches and concerts. I've been in them, and they are glass fronted, fairly large, have a good view, the windows at the front can be opened, or you can listen through a speaker (which has a volume control). If these boxes were made available to families or groups with additional needs, would that actually help (at no additional cost of course)? People could move around if needed, make noise, control the volume, and still be able to enjoy the performance, but without causing distress to other patrons or getting distressed themselves.

If each theatre had a number of these 'sensory rooms' (could be built into the existing box seats where available), surely that must give more access to people with disabilities?

Even in the case with Toysaurus at this performance, where her child with special needs was distressed by others with special needs, so an accessible performance would not really help, whereas individual spaces being available for those who want to utilise them may.

I honestly think he'd still be too loud. Our theatre doesn't have boxes unfortunately. They do have an under the lighting secret squirrel bit which isn't officially anything. You can see the stage but not any high up special effects. My parents were put in there once when we were given Ds2's show dates so late the show had sold out (and his next performances were abroad).

Ds2 is gruff with a broken voice now so may never be in a pro show again - but if he is ever in anything there again that would be worth asking about. Thanks for the idea. I don't think they'd let us use it for a regular show, but they might to watch ds2.

Brilliant idea midnite. And actually the secret squirrel area I mentioned would work well like that with a screen added. It wouldn't be wanted by the general public either as the view is restricted above about 10 foot, but it would be fine for someone like ds1.

It was a nightmare all round for me. I started in the upper circle, where we were sat directly in front of a family who were talking to each other very loudly, non stop, and had their feet up on our seats. I glared at them a few times but if anything that made them talk more. Also had the happy birthdays coming from down below, but the people behind were more annoying at that point.

So I had a word with staff in the interval and they moved us to a box that had restricted viewing, I happily took that to get away from the annoying family. The kids were thrills because 'we were like VIPs'. But from the box the singing and meltdown were even louder, so we still weren't that much better off. And I couldn't really see much as I had a bunch of lights in my way.

The show was great btw, strongly recommend going to see it.

Couldn't get out of the theatre fast enough though.

We have used those at Manchester Arena Midnite and they were fantastic.

Wildbelle..and next time it will probably be fine I hope.

Probably not so for the two,people in question.

Smiling I've just been for my nightly cycle ride (don't ask!) whilst thinking about this and wondering the same sort of thing that you said.

If the disturbance means that it is impossible for someone with particular disabilities to enjoy the show (and you have said it would be for you and Toys said that her boy with autism was struggling greatly) and their disability means that they are more effected than the average then people are being excluded? So in trying to get inclusion the theatre is actually excluding people?

A few years ago, a theatre maker called Jess Thom went to see a Mark Thomas show at The Tricycle in London. Jess has Tourette's. The theatre made her sit in the tech box as people complained about her involuntary noises.

So, Jess made a show about it.

Backstage in Biscuitland has toured the U.K., the U.S, and Australia and been broadcast live on the BBC.

For anyone who thinks people with disabilities, shouldn't be able to enjoy the same shows and performances as you, I heartily, whole heartedly and emphatically beg you to go and see this show to understand how your feelings can impact on other people's.

www.markthomasinfo.co.uk/jess-thom-backstage-biscuit-land/

www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/oct/18/backstage-in-biscuit-land-review-tourettes-makes-for-unpredictable-joyous-must-watch-theatre

I am not sure what the answer is to be honest Lou.
It is only really recently that kids theatre has exploded and shows have become more accessible.

It's a difficult situation

People pay £££s and complain about being disturbed because they can't hear the show.
A parent of a child with autism has paid £££s but their child is stressed by the noise of someone else and can't watch the show
Family of a child or adult making the noise has people complaining to them and ends up stressed and upset and can't watch the show.

No one wins :(

Sorry I meant to add after the first paragraph that theatres are still lagging behind the times were accessibility is concerned.

Midnight has the answer (for people like my son anyway - and the space my parents were in would be fine for him with a screen so he could be noisy). It may be very offensive to someone with Tourette's (or something similar though) as it was certainly substandard seating in terms of view (my son wouldn't mind). As usual accessibility is complex and different solutions are needed for different groups.