AIBU regarding theatre experience?

[WildBelle]

I took my DDs to the theatre last night as a treat. I was up to my neck in uni work all xmas holidays so we didn't really go out and do much, so I got us tickets to see a show that I knew they'd both love. I hope I don't offend anyone with this post, I have a dd with a disability so that's the last thing I want to do.

Throughout the first half there was someone in the audience who kept singing happy birthday VERY loudly. This ramped up significantly in the second half, it was pretty much constant and very distracting, and then was accompanied by someone else who was making very loud noises (and sounded quite distressed). i am assuming that they were older children or adults with learning difficulties. Now don't get me wrong, I am completely behind the idea of people with disabilities having access to theatre or anything else, but in the second half particularly the noises coming from that direction were so loud that it was impossible to hear what was going on on stage.

If someone had a baby that was crying, they would have taken them out to avoid disturbing everyone else. I can't help thinking that the carers should have done something about it, particularly when it escalated in the second half. I personally feel disppointed that the show was ruined a bit by not being able to hear, as a single parent it's not something I can afford to do that often. There was probably getting on for 1000 people in the theatre and they would have all been affected by the noise levels.

I probably sound horrible and I really don't mean to, but AIBU?

Everybody watching a show should be able to see and hear it.

Choosing not to go somewhere because it is too risky for you is different from being told you cannot go somewhere.

No it isn't. He's not "choosing not to go" he can't go as it can literally be a life or death situation.

In practical terms - he "chooses" not to go to some restaurants if he's not sure if they can accommodate him, he has also been effectively told he can't go to some restaurants as they are willing to make adjustments but can't guarantee there won't be allergens around and other restaurants have point blank said that there is no way they could accommodate his allergies because of the food they actually serv (eg if it was seafood he was deathly allergic to and a seafood restaurant said they couldn't guarantee he wouldn't come into contact with any form of it) He can "choose" to take that risk with some restaurants, but he'd prefer not to have to stab himself with an epi pen then hope he can get to hospital before his body shuts down just because he should be able to go in whatever restauraunt he likes. With other restaurants he really can't choose as it is just not workable at all and there is nothing the restaurant could do to accommodate him being there.

Not everything can be accessible to everyone at all times and people have to make the "choice" to do things that are suitable to their needs, requirements and limitations.

Just as my cousin can't go to some restaurants as they aren't suitable for him, some people can't go to some theatre productions as they aren't suitable for them either - whether it's due to LDs, issues with sound, issues with strobe lighting or any other reason.

But they can go to the productions.

Who are you to say they cant?

You personally might think they shouldn't go. You cant say they CAN'T.

Unless you are the theatre owner?

Your cousin or whatever finding it hard to find a restaurant to accommodate his allergies in no way compared to you deciding you should forbid people with LDs from going to the theatre

If the mother of the girl in question is reading..long may she enjoy going to the theatre

If the mother of the girl in question is reading..long may she enjoy going to the theatre thanks

^this

Not being able to do something for safety reasons is not the same as being told we don't want you there.

This is exactly like the infamous panto thread from years ago except it had lots of deletions made.

I've just read Jason Manford's FB page and his posts on encouraging audiences and families who want to, to come and see the show whatever their needs, disabilities or sensitivities may be.

What's clear from the 1000s of comments and replies is how much more generous, compassionate and thoughtful the respondents are on Facebook in comparison to this thread.

Whilst I understand and feel compassion for some who posted about how disruption affects them, I am upset by how selfish some voices have been. To be clear, there will always be disruption and noises off in practically any show.

As some probably missed one my previous posts, I've worked in theatres for 20 years, presenting on average 150-200 shows per year, as well as watching upwards of 100 shows at other venues each year. That's probably 4000- 6000 shows that I've been directly and indirectly involved in.

In all that time and all those thousands of shows, I have rarely, if ever, had audience members complain about people making involuntary noises in a theatre.

This argument has portrayed this incident as if it happens regularly and that it deeply and profoundly inconveniences people to the level they would walk out, demand refunds, attempt to have someone else removed and (even though this is uncomfortable for some), put their needs as predominantly NT customers ahead of a child having a rare and joyful experience in a venue which welcomed them, by a cast of performers who have encouraged them to attend.

Today, I spent my time reflecting on this thread and trying to devise more ways I can support customers with different needs. because if there's one thing this negative and disturbing debate has done, it has strengthened my will and resolve to be even more welcoming and to make accessing theatre as easy as possible..

If anyone would like to positively add to this, I'm all ears. To anyone else who wants to put the boot in about how their needs (or huge expenditure) trumps a disabled child's rights to go to the theatre, then shame on you.

Penguin, thanks that's perfect

Penguin in the spirit of your post, I think there are a few things that could usefully be done to improve access to people with all different types of disabilities.

Firstly, communication (as someone mentioned up thread). If there are specific performances that are tailored to people with specific needs, advertise them. And put on different types of performances, so people can choose which best suits them.

Secondly, have good options for people who need to leave because something is happening to cause them distress. Chill out areas. Areas with a decent screen so the experience is almost the same as being able to stay in the auditorium.

Thirdly, get box office staff to understand how the different areas of the theatre work for people with differing needs, so they are able to advise on the best seats for an individual. And have a variety of different seating arrangements if possible.

And finally... Get theatre staff to actually deal with "bad behaviour" from people without additional needs. Prioritise people with additional needs over the people who are just being disruptive because they feel like it. Oh, and don't sell crisps

Today, I spent my time reflecting on this thread and trying to devise more ways I can support customers with different needs. because if there's one thing this negative and disturbing debate has done, it has strengthened my will and resolve to be even more welcoming and to make accessing theatre as easy as possible

I said much much earlier in the thread that one of your posts made me sob with happiness and this is now another one.

Thank you for being so lovely penguin

No one was dismissing you for being ' just sound sensitive' that's rubbish

Saying my issues are being 'sound sensitive' is very dismissive. And minimising. And hurtful.

I wish I was just 'sound sensitive'.

Anyway I'm defiantly off this time. Good luck with everything and all the best for the future.

I would love to help you with that Penguin but am not sure how. If I think of something I will pop back.

Thanks all of you.

smiling those are some great ideas.

I'm cutting and pasting them if you don't mind, as they are very practical and would be good to discuss with front of house and technical teams. Some we do already and some we may be able to implement.

for you all.

Penguin Thank you. I think we have to recognise that some attempts at accessibility aren't compatible with other access issues - for example if I attend a captioned performance, I'm using my residual hearing to pick up as much as possible and I really can't tolerate background noise. Ds couldn't cope with most dark auditoriums and would need to go to a relaxed performance, which would be hell for me. We are thus very unlikely to go to the theatre together unless it's cheap enough that I don't mind missing half the dialogue. He manages on school trips to children's theatres/relaxed perfs.

Getting back to my communication rant - set designers and directors need to know info from the start, for example where not to build set that blocks the infra-red transmitter. Saying the set came over from Broadway and had to be squeezed in isn't an excuse. You fit it round all the lights!

Train all staff - I know box office staff have huge turnover, but 90% of the time when I ask for the advertised infra-red receiver I get a "er, what's that, excuse me I'll get the boss", finally find the person with them, 50% of the time find they don't have any with neckloops, then find I can only have one if I pay a £20 deposit in cash not mentioned on the website, and then as mentioned before, they don't work as need a line of sight to the transmitter. Good theatres tell you to go to counter X by door Y and what deposit is needed, and enable you to book them in advance by email and will double check your seats are compatible and upgrade as needed. Ditto checking that people who need captions are able to see them from their seats.
Being able to contact the theatre by email to ask access questions, and publicising that a few tickets for performances will be held for people who have to wait for such questions to be answered. I love the Donmar Warehouse for this.

Key one would be only permitting agencies/websites to sell tickets if they provide access info up front. If people had to tick a box saying "I understand these tickets are for a relaxed performance where the lights are less dim than usual and some patrons may make noise" before entering their credit card details, this thread probably wouldn't exist (conversely ticking a box to confirm you won't rustle, use your phone screen, talk or otherwise disturb the audience, for other performances ).

Being able to book other than by phone, especially for captioned perfs. For readers thinking all deaf people use Text relay and this isn't a problem, no they don't, because in summary Text relay is slow, shit, and crashes with phone menus.

Theatres have got hugely better in the last 20 years at all sorts of access (sufficient ladies loos for starters!), but joining up communication is the next big step.

Katy07 you might be interested in joining us on this thread here if you haven't already www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetters_with_sn/2821919-New-New-Neurodiversity-support-thread-for-women-with-suspected-diagnosed-or-self-diagnosed-autism-ADHD-and-other-NDs

One more - publicise numbers of stairs and distance to walk to get to parts of the theatre. When I used a wheelchair I quickly learnt that step-free access is great but if alone I'd much prefer to get up 3 steps than have to go 200 yards out of my way. Again, providing info to make that choice (and thanks to the National for mentioning they can store wheelchairs and walking frames at the back of the auditorium for you).
Signage for everything is also really helpful, reducing everyone's worry about finding seats and loos in time and making it accessible for people who can't risk wasting energy on walking up unnecessary stairs.

Penguin how lovely.

More relaxed performances and more cracking down on NT people being idiots!!

As I mentioned up thread I and DH are both sensitive to extra noise/"rule breaking" in the theatre, but NT people who are being rude and innapropriate are the problem, not people with LD. If someone with LD was making a noise yes it would bother me on the surface, but I'd manage to deal with it, especially as often it's a manifestation of happiness, if not I'd quietly move. Why should I try to stop their enjoyment too?
More 'relaxed' performances would be a great idea though. Or just performances that are the same but with extra 'reduced' tickets for those with LD and families/caters on certain nights. Then they could be advertised as "On X date those with LD pay Z amount less" - then it would be obvious to NT people that there might be more people with LD there so they would be prepared for it, but it wouldn't be a "different" show so easier to accommodate and would probably still sell better IYSWIM.

I'm terrible at phrasing ideas but I hope it's clear enough what I mean - not a 'special' show for LD as such but one (or more) where they feel more encouraged and NT people will have less reason to be stupid about it.