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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

917 replies

Karen85 · 03/02/2017 13:24

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

OP posts:
trixymalixy · 09/02/2017 23:14

I also must have missed the Scottish Office campaign ??

Nyx · 09/02/2017 23:21

Britain Elects:
Scottish independence voting intention:

Yes: 49% (+3)
No: 51% (-3)

(via BMG / 26 - 31 Jan)

Excluding DKs.

prettybird · 09/02/2017 23:22

Look at their Twitter feed Hmm. Also the fact that their budget (especially the communications budget) has increased disproportionately since 2011, given that technically their remit should be getting smaller, not larger.

trixymalixy · 09/02/2017 23:31

Sorry Nyx. Prof Curtis who is normally sympathetic to Indy says that there's a sampling error in that one. I've been waiting for someone to post that. 😂

trixymalixy · 09/02/2017 23:32

Sorry Nyx. Prof Curtis who is normally sympathetic to Indy says that there's a sampling error in that one. I've been waiting for someone to post that. 😂

trixymalixy · 09/02/2017 23:36

I see what you mean prettybird. They do seem rather keen on insisting how important trade with the uk is.

Inconvenient truth for many I guess.

trixymalixy · 09/02/2017 23:38

I see what you mean prettybird. They do seem rather keen on insisting how important trade with the uk is.

Inconvenient truth for many I guess.

LastnightaDJ · 09/02/2017 23:43

Sadly, rUK appears hell bent on imploding right now...at least the government strategy is taking us that way.

Nyx · 09/02/2017 23:58

Oh well Trixy, I'm glad I've cheered you up Wink

Chatelherault · 10/02/2017 08:28

I don't agree with her politics, but she is okay apart from that

prettybird · 10/02/2017 09:16

"...Prof Curtis who is normally sympathetic to Indy" ConfusedHmm

ROFL

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/02/2017 09:23

I agree that there are enough pro-indy MSPs to vote to hold another independence referendum, and it was mentioned in the manifestos of both the Greens and the SNP so technically they have a mandate to do so. However, it would be foolish to assume that everyone who voted for these parties is in favour of independence as people vote for a variety of reasons. As with PPs, I know of several staunch unionists who voted for their SNP because they believed they had socialist credentials and were disillusioned with the Labour party. The SNP itself has sought to reassure people in the past that a vote for them was not necessarily a vote for independence, and many people believed that. After seeing that vote co-opted into support for independence I doubt they'll do so again, but we'll have to wait for the next elections to see how big an effect that has.

It's also clear that campaigning on both sides has never really stopped since 2014. The Scotland in Union movement has been more active recently, and there have been several pro-independence marches, occupations, and of course the SNP's 'listening exercise' which was less about whether people wanted another referendum and more about asking why they voted no and how the SNP could change their minds. I'm assuming the answer wasn't what they wanted to hear as there has been not a peep about it since it closed several months ago. NS herself formally put independence back on the table last June and has reiterated that position many times since, and it seems ridiculous to suggest people haven't been thrashing out the arguments even if the formal campaigns haven't yet been launched.

And no, the polls have not shifted in support of independence after Brexit. They've fluctuated a bit since 2014 and there was a tiny bounce in support for leaving the UK after the Brexit vote but this quickly settled back down. It's worth bearing in mind that the polls overestimated the yes support before the 2014 vote, with 'yes' being consistently between 47-49%, and occasionally even over 50%. On the day, people voted for what they knew as they tend to do, and it's likely that the 45-47% (with one disputed 49%) support shown currently would also be an over-estimate.

NS of course knows this, and also knows that if she lost a second time that would bury the question for a generation (a human one, not a fruit fly's). But she's painted herself into a corner with her ultimatum over her Brexit position and the statements that 'she's not bluffing'. I reckon she must be praying that TM will give any concession that she can call a victory and so postpone it. Imo, her biggest problem is that, despite stoking a fair amount of anger over Brexit and warning of 'Tory hard brexit cliff edges' etc. the Scottish people still don't support independence in large enough numbers. This is probably because while the Scots may be unhappy about the situation they are ultimately pragmatists, and they can see there are still fundamental problems such as a weak economy and no clear currency plan. It is also clear for everyone to see that if leaving the EU is bad leaving the UK must be a disaster, particularly as we would not just step into the same deal with the EU (confirmed today by a senior EU official).

readyforno2 · 10/02/2017 09:35

I'm Scottish and love her.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/02/2017 09:39

Sadly, rUK appears hell bent on imploding right now...at least the government strategy is taking us that way.

There'll be challenges to Brexit, but I doubt it will destroy the UK. Companies still want to invest in the UK (as Apple announced yesterday and they're far from alone), economists have conceded that their forecasts before the referendum were overly pessimistic (apparently they assumed that no-one would take any action, and the public would be so scared by it all they would stop spending and the economy would tank - neither were true). Additionally, in an international trade discussion in the commons yesterday several speakers made reference to advice they'd had from negotiators performing complex trade deals that it was not going to be as problematic to set up trade deals as many were assuming.

I don't think we're doomed by any means.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/02/2017 09:53

*"...Prof Curtis who is normally sympathetic to Indy" confusedhmm

ROFL*

I think of Prof. Curtis as fairly neutral. In this article in which he describes the 49% as likely a sampling error which contradicts another recent poll, he also notes that the polls remain close. Overall, he suggests there has been no real change in support, and I suspect he's right.

uk.businessinsider.com/scottish-independence-bmg-poll-sampling-error-behind-bmg-poll-putting-support-on-49-2017-2

Calyx72 · 10/02/2017 10:04

It appears that poll hasn't included 16/17 year olds, who would likely get a vote in an indyref2, so results not really reflective of outcome there.

Nyx · 10/02/2017 10:10

I think what was said was that a vote for independence was not necessarily a vote for the SNP.

I am glad you don't think that the UK is doomed but forgive me if I feel a little apprehensive about brexit.

And a little annoyed about the will of many of Scotland's people being ignored and shoved to one side by Westminster re Brexit. But you'll notice that I am not in any way shouty or vitriolic and call nobody names and insult nobody. I haven't even slagged off the Tories.

I know that currently I am in the minority and appreciate the chance to state my views.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/02/2017 10:15

And a little annoyed about the will of many of Scotland's people being ignored and shoved to one side by Westminster re Brexit. But you'll notice that I am not in any way shouty or vitriolic and call nobody names and insult nobody. I haven't even slagged off the Tories.

Was that aimed at me? I haven't called anyone names, and I didn't suggest that you did either.

Nyx · 10/02/2017 10:16

No, it wasn't. For some reason I feel a bit defensive. Sorry.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/02/2017 10:25

No worries Nyx. Emotions run high when these things are debated. I'd hate to think someone thought I was attacking them personally.

Nyx · 10/02/2017 10:27

No, you absolutely weren't Smile

Zanymummy · 13/02/2017 23:21

What annoys me is the MSP's claim the will of the Scottish people being ignored while ignoring only something like 42% of the Scottish electorate bothered to vote and of that 42% that did bother were 62% in favour of the remaining in the EU. But then all politicians of whatever party love to twist facts and run with it to their own ends lol

Zanymummy · 13/02/2017 23:29

Can't find edit button. Meant to type MSP's/Nicola Sturgeon

prettybird · 14/02/2017 00:10

You know what really annoys me Angry. People who disseminate false facts.

There were 3,987,112 people eligible to vote in Scotland at the Referendum. 67.2% of them did indeed bother to vote in the EU Referedum, not 42%.

Of that 67.2%, 1,661,191 voted Remain. Exactly 62% of those that "bothered to vote". Not twisting facts - they're easy enough to check.

You can say that only 42% of the total electorate in Scotland voted Remain, in contrast to the 25% of voted Leave Hmm - but that's somewhat different to what you were trying to claim. Confused

trixymalixy · 14/02/2017 09:09

And let's not forget the 2,001,926 votes to remain part of the Uk in 2014 that's an inconvenient fact for a lot of people.