To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

[Karen85]

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

"your views are actually quite ignorant. I get that you want Scotland to be independent however you are ignoring all the facts around how much Scotland costs to run and how much we produce to say it would be different if we were independent. how would it be different? do you think all these industries are going to pop up all of a sudden to give Scotland greater revenues? seriously your in cuckoo land."
This. I don't care who said the actual words. We are constantly being told Scotland is too poor to be independent and that we couldn't make it work. Over and over. I don't see what makes Scotland so incapable of running our own house when just about every other country does it without comment. Independence is normal. Why are we so different? Imo we aren't but we have people desperately trying to make us believe we are.

I think Scotland is quite divided.
Glaswegians have little time for edinburgians. Aberdeen is a low unto itself. Western isles full of incomers from wherever. SW ignored by all as usual. And there are big chips on shoulders due to Protestant catholic footie. And Shetland might go it alone.

nyx
your arguments for an independent Scotland are really just an echo of how the UK (particularly England) feels about being part of the EU superstate - surely you therefore must understand/support the UK leaving as per the referendum.

Skooba, Glaswegians and people from Edinburgh actually get on fine, believe it or not. What's wrong with Aberdeen? My sister went to Uni there and had a fantastic time. Scotland is by no means the only country with stupid football fans. And the 'incomers' in the western isles - what are you saying? That they and the 'locals' are growling at each other? What exactly is your point with that post? What are you saying? Scotland can't or shouldn't be independent because...?
And Ollie, if England wants to come out of the EU, if they believe that would be better, fair enough. Scotland (on the whole) believes being in the EU is better for us than being out. The difference is in my opinion that the EU is more of a proper Union. The UK is not an equal union. The EU is easier to get out of, for a start. Why doesn't England want to be independent of the UK if they feel that way? The UK and the EU are not the same type of thing at and it is being facetious to try and imply they are.

Aberdeen is a low unto itself

Can you expand on that please?

Should have been law

Because it is quite a divided country- when NS talks about the Scottish people It is as if they are one voice when in fact they are a very disparate group with different views on many things including independence and brexit.

Law unto itself a bit like London to the rest of the country. Wealth from oil giving a different standard of living to the rest of the country.

One possibility I can see from the Neverendum strategy is that the threshold of 50% supporting independence could actually be passed first on the English side of the border.

Aberdeen is certainly different: they get the lowest funding of any council in Scotland by a chunk (below the Scottish government's 'guaranteed' minimum), regularly used as a cash cow for the rest of Scotland, very little central investment, difficult to get people to come and work here, teacher vacancies are high and unfillable and schools receiving far less funding than other areas, jobs are being taken away to the central belt together with local knowledge for fire/ambulance/police. Business rates are set to jump, 200% in some cases, sending business that are struggling insolvent. House prices have fallen and mortgage arrears have doubled across the city in the last few years. Tens of thousands of jobs have been lost. Restaurants and hotels are shutting because of lack of business. Aberdonians look with envy at the theatres, museums, art galleries and cultural events of other Scottish cities.

Yes there are some very wealthy individuals but there are big problems in Aberdeen that NS ignores.

Speaking of intolerance

my neighbour used to refer to us as 'white settlers'.
He was about as racist as you could get (chiefly towards the English, but he had plenty to say, when in drink, about 'the coloureds' and 'the bog trotters' too

I am English born but have lived in Scotland since 1990.
I pay my taxes, vote, work etc.
My children were born here.
I will be buried here, I expect.

He sits just behind NS in Parliament usually, as he is now an SNP MSP.

Aberdonians look with envy at the theatres, museums, art galleries and cultural events of other Scottish cities

Is that every Aberdonian you are speaking for? Most people I know go and visit these other, larger cities that naturally have more access to the arts.

In any case Aberdeen has several excellent galleries, museums, theatres and access to cultural events, in proportion to the size and population of the place.

I think of the culture etc as concentrated where the people are - in the same way lots of exhibitions etc are in London. Yes, a lot of the cultural events are in Edinburgh and Glasgow, because that's where a lot of the population is, and that's where the various civic bodies/buildings etc are.

fleur I grew up with similar racism, right down to the 'white settlers' wording. There is undeniably a link to SOME SNP supporters, but it isn't unique - and the worst of it I've personally heard is from my Dad, who is becoming increasingly right-wing as he gets older, and has moved from Tory to UKIP (I actually think he'd vote for the BNP if they stood - I'm actually quite concerned at how virulently racist he's become over the last year or so)

"Nicola Sturgeon’s poverty adviser deleted criticism of flagship SNP policies from a major report after showing a draft version to the first minister, The Times has learnt.

Naomi Eisenstadt admitted that she had complied with some requests from officials to change the wording of her findings before they were released to the public — despite ministers’ claims that she was entirely independent.
U
Concerns over the impact on the poor of the SNP’s council tax freeze and cuts imposed on local authorities, which would have been highly embarrassing for Ms Sturgeon before last May’s Holyrood election, were included in draft versions but removed from the final report.

How exactly are people meant to make an honest decision re Indy, when even the "independent" reports are interfered with by the SNP. They are not honest, in fact I would go so far as quoting a certain American, the SNP present "alternative facts"

OOAOML - yes, but these are NOT okay views to be held by a currently sitting SNP MSP though!?!

Bejazzled Yes, I had heard that official documents needed approval before being released too.
I know this is not unique to the SNP just as the racism referred to above is not unique but I find it hard to swallow that NS portrays herself as 'transparent' when she is anything but and also that she speaks for Scotland, when she does not!

Nyx - "other countries govern themselves" "it's normal" YES! Scotland has resources they don't have as well. That's how I feel. I may be daft but it's true.

It's not just on the indy supporting side that transparency is needed. Google the McCrone Report.

There are independence supporters in the Greens, Labour and Lib Dem camps as well and it shouldn't be just about party politics or finances.

And independence isn't physical separation either. The emotive language and hand-wringing about, well for instance in the independence referendum some saying their family members in Scotland etc would become 'foreigners' and so on, is unnecessary. Scotland would not want to be exclusive or put up barriers of any kind. We just want to self govern and be fully in charge of our own finances. Use our assets for what we need etc.

No fleur they're not ok. I think I was just trying (and probably not saying well as was rushed) is that these attitudes are pretty wide-spread and they're not limited to pro- or anti-independence people. My Dad is vehemently anti-independence, and he's an appalling racist (I'm trying to work out if the Brexit debate has encouraged him to let it out more, as he's gone from occasional statements to pretty much every time I speak to him, or if it is his increasing age - at the moment he isn't too bad in front of the children but some of the things he says are appalling and I'm going to have to have the conversation about not saying it in front of them).

I still have issues with the SNP in government, but whilst NS doesn't speak for me on all occasions, she does on some. And a whole lot more often these days than Theresa May. I don't think we should be in a position where we expect any politician to speak for us on all occasions - but nor can I muster up the anti-SNP feeling that a lot of my fellow 2014 No voters on Twitter do. I can't be bothered with the instinctive reactions any more. And I can't stomach their cheerleading of May and Trump on the basis that it scuppers the SNP (I know that isn't everyone, but I've seen a fair amount of it online).

I wish we could get on with government, and with holding both governments to account, but at the moment it feels like the debate is all about what kind of country we want to be (both Scotland and the UK) and as a No 2014/Remain 2016 voter I no longer feel absolute certainty.

Peggy my views aren't ignorant and they are shared by Nicola Sturgeon and other intelligent people. As I said I'm not an economist but we do have people who might be quite good at that side of things given the chance.

It's a disgrace the way SNP MPs are treated in Westminster as well.

Are they treated any differently to any other party that isn't either in Government or the official Opposition, though, Calyx?

OOAOML I feel the same except for being a yes voter. I am sad that Labour aren't any opposition either to SNP in Holyrood (Greens seem to be doing ok eg the budget) or the Tories in WM. And I'm an SNP voter.

I think they are. I have seen numerous examples on YouTube but I accept that Westminster does seem to run itself like a school playground most of the time.

The examples on YouTube were probably selected with a bias, though - there are probably plenty of examples of other parties being similarly treated, but if you are trying to show that Party X is being treated unfairly at Westminster, you aren't going to put up the examples that show other parties being treated the same way - because it would undermine your argument that Party X is being singled out for poor treatment.

auldacquaintance.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/time-to-get-out-of-dodge/

One instance (the most recent) of SNP MPs not being afforded respect in the Commons.
Yes it's from an independence supporting blog but you can watch the clips on the web as well.