To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

[Karen85]

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

Industries through all the countries of the U.K. Including England have been decimated. Not because of some government conspiracy to destroy itself which clearly makes no bloody sense at all because those industries were past their sell by date.

The Scottish government is trying to get rid of Trident and will therefore be decimating its own local jobs.

And of course we are subsidising Scotland. The Barnett formula allowed Alex salmond to do away with university fees and prescription charges and therefore gain huge support for the SNP. Paid for by U.K. taxpayers who didn't get the same benefits.

Wow yessers really are like brexiteers, post truth, post fact, anti expert and anti intellectualism.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Scotland does spend more than it takes in tax revenue.

Trixy. Please elaborate as that doesn't really add very much to the debate.

Soar. Just ignore the name calling on both sides. I've not called anyone names and have tried to stick to facts I can back up. I've not even commented on NS as a person as I don't know her, only as a politician, which is a legitimate thing to do.

....and so does England . Hence we have have a deficit

And to Olympia - can you tell me how many Scottish jobs are being "protected" or even created by Trident?

I don't know enough about the relative flows of revenue to know whether the UK subsidises Scotland, but I do think we rely fairly heavily on money via the Barnett formula. I'm sure it's complicated, but unfortunately I suspect we need the UK more than they need us. Sadly, with regards to drug problems and health inequality I think we do lag behind the rUK. Obviously this doesn't mean we're all junkies. There's even a phenomenon known as the Glasgow effect which describes much worse health outcomes than equivalently deprived cities elsewhere in the UK, and drug consumption may be a big part of this.

A bigger point though is that these tit for tat insults are being actively stoked by the SNP and their constant attacks on the English (sorry, 'Westminster'). It is inevitable that English people get pissed off and start griping back, which stokes anti-English feeling in Scotland etc. etc. Please note that the SNP don't speak for Scotland, and we're not all so whiny and ungrateful for the benefits we get from the union.

Going back to the time of the referendum (I'm working from memory here because I can't be bothered to dig the exact numbers up!), basically both sides were sort of telling the truth about who put in what and who was subsidizing who depending on if they worked in total amounts, percentages or per capita figures, current year or averages. IIRC, on a % basis and including all oil revenues as Scottish then Scotland put in a greater % than it got back. However, on a monetary basis we still got back significantly more than we contributed because the whole of the UK had a massive deficit. Looking at the latest figures I think there's been some restatements as those figures are no longer the same (for 2014)

However, here is a summary of the current state of play. The most recently available GERS figures are from 2015/16 and are as follows: (in millions)

Scottish revenue including geographical share of north sea oil : £53748
Scottish expenditure: £68581

In %s
Income -7.9% of total UK
Expenditure-9.1%

It used to be that on a per capita basis Scotland contributed more per head (once oil factored in), sometimes considerably more but thanks to the crash in oil that again is not the case currently:

Per capita revenue - Scotland - £10000
Per capita - UK - £10400

Per capita expenses
Scotland - £12800
rUK - £11500

There have been plenty of times in the past when it was the other way around and Scotland contributed more, for example in 2008-09 Scotland's contribution per capita was £10800 vs expenses of £11100 whereas UK was £9000 vs £10600 (in other words, everyone was overspending but the Scots were far closer to breaking even)

But that's the problem, Scotland is far more dependent on oil proportionally than the UK as a whole is - so when oil is good we're great, when it's bad we're dreadful. As an independent country we would be less able to cope with the sort of oscillations we see in oil revenues.

Also of note, current budget and fiscal deficits are now considerably worse in Scotland than the UK as a whole. Again, most recent year:
Current budget balance
Scotland: -8.1%
UK: -2.2%

Fiscal
Scotland: -9.5%
UK: -4%

Have to go and shower off my bleached head --fake blonde that I am-

Yes but Scotland's deficit is far higher than that of the U.K.

Or what statistically said. Crossed posts.

Gers figures show how crap Scotland is doing in the Union. Really does not mean anything with regard to an independent Scotland.

Still dreaming of unicorns and not here really

The GERS figures are widely regarded as being the most accurate available. Of course there would be differences if Scotland was independent - but there would be both positives and negatives financially and given that nobody has a crystal ball surely the most reasonable place to start is to look at what the country currently earns and what it currently costs to run?

Stats yes. But you and others use them to tell dreamers like me that Scotland couldn't possibly thrive independently not as a starting point for working towards it.

What would your dream be then Calyx? What would you cut first in an independent Scotland? Tuition fees? The NHS?

I'm seeing a reluctance in the SNP to tax more to pay for services so that's not an option.

and that isn't taking account of all the milk and honey that has been promised on top of what we currently have.

Please point to where I said that? Oh, I didn't, did I? I said we'd be less able to cope with oscillations. Which is clearly true, because proportionally oil is a bigger part of our revenue than it is for the whole of the UK.

Dream all you want, but you need to live in the real world. If you want independence you need to figure out how it could be done, what changes would be needed and how these would be achieved - not leap off a cliff and hope to grab a passing branch on the way down.

Stats hmmm like Brexit had a well thought out plan. Others can vote for silly things so I can too?!

So you admit that independence is silly? It's fine not to have a plan because Brexit doesn't?!

Stats hmmm like Brexit had a well thought out plan. Others can vote for silly things so I can too?!

It was not official Conservative or government policy to support Brexit. The leader of the governing Conservative party was in favour of remain.

The Yes campaign had the full support of the SNP who wanted independence to happen.

As I said I'm not an economist and I personally don't have a plan. I don't think independence for Scotland is silly but I keep getting told that it basically is.

I believe we can thrive with full fiscal autonomy or full independence. With or without oil. We have resources and are being dragged out of the EU and I think staying in this situation would be sillier than independence.

Unicorns n that.

Again, figures for the most current year:

North Sea oil revenue(millions)

Total

2011/12... 10,957
2012/13... 6,234
2013/14... 4,764
2014/15... 2,252
2015/16... 76

Scottish Geographical share
11/12... 9,633
12/13... 5,306
13/14... 3,999
14/15... 1,802
15/16... 60

Oil revenues are through the floor!

Total Scottish revenue for the same years
56,961
53,498
54,053
53,567
53,748

Now, that doesn't look so bad, the overall revenues haven't gone down as much as would be expected (other industries doing better), but the per capita figures show the picture better:

Scottish revenue per head
11/12... 10,700
12/13... 10,100
13/14... 10,100
14/15... 10,000
15/16... 10,000

Uk revenue per head
11/12... 9,500
12/13... 9,500
13/14... 9,800
14/15... 10,100
15/16... 10,400

Scotland's declining/stagnating while the UK as a whole improves.

Stats - in the union. Just saying.

I didn't vote for Brexit, so not sure what relevance that has.

We'd be out of the EU regardless - there's no mechanism for us to remain in, we'd have to leave, reapply, be accepted and meet their criteria. Not so likely given the state of our budget

Calyx, utterly irrelevant since you don't have a crystal ball. Just saying.