To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

[RocketQueenP]

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

I think also some of the far left have not done themselves any favours, with their reactions to brexit, and demanding another vote, just because they did not get the outcome they desired;

That sort of comment is exactly the problem: the subtle alteration of the facts to suit someone's agenda.

The EU Referendum was NOT a Left versus Right referendum. There were Remainers and Leavers from all over the political spectrum.
Yet we see it time and again: posters trying to turn it into a Left versus Right argument - and here we even have a poster claiming that it was the Far Left demanding another vote.
It was, of course, a Leaver who started the petition requesting a second referendum and Theresa May herself was a Remainer.

20nil I think intellectually Jarvis is; an MA from KCL must be worth something and he obviously has the leadership skills, given his military background. I think he is up to it, but if he is up for it is another question altogether. He may however be more practical than ideological, which I would admire, but don't know if that would go down well with some Labour supporters.

Can I ask why you think now is a worse time than any to be leave the EU, given that there was never going to be a good time to do it?

Agree Tanith.

I can't count the times (hundreds) I've been called a Leftiie, a guardian reader, a liberal, an elite, a reader of the socialist worker, etc, based on the fact that I think brexit is crap and I hate trump.

V Weird.

It's a real mistake to look upon current divisions as between left and right.

I thought endlessly about which way to vote in the referendum last year. Eventually, I voted to leave, and I did so because I read one of the Brussels inner circle suggesting that only those with degrees should be permitted a vote as no one of lesser intelligence could understand the issues.

I voted to join the EEC in 1973 and was broadly supportive of the direction of travel, until the full scale of EU integration ambitions became clear. Once the Accession countries joined, unleashing the wave of opportunistic economic migration and the moves towards a European superstate took shape, I began to think that a bunch of unelected technocrats would not be sufficiently nimble politically to address the giant mess in the Middle East, or restrain Putin, or to counter China's growing ambitions... much less all of them simultaneously.

I think I just prefer the charmless vicar's daughter of all the current options, although Dan Jarvis looks able and principled, as does Keir Starmer. The rise of the SNP electorally is looking a bit tarnished, and the beneficiaries are the Scottish Conservatives, under the estimable Ruth Donaldson.

Surely this is all just due to the divide and conquer approach of the world leaders. Also their greed. We're busy fighting with each other while they steal all the money.

Just finished work and catching up with all the posts.

It has been a really interesting read ....I never wanted it to be a debate over what's "best" left or right (although obvs I don't get to decide how a thread goes 😂! ) I totally respect the opinions of people who are right wing. after all we live in a democracy and everyone has the right to vote how they see fit. Despite, or maybe because, I'm a lefty, if anything I would like to hear some more from posters on the right who think things will ever get better for everyone and how....as frankly right now I'm terrified of what sort of environment I have brought my children into.

I would like to hear some more from posters on the right who think things will ever get better for everyone and how... Well I'm not left wing and I don't think things will get better for everyone. But we just don't know. Personally I think Brexit is a bloody disaster.

Why particularily posters on the right? There are, utterly bizarre I know, posters who call themselves on the left yet are pro- brexit and trump apologists- wouldn't you want to hear from them too?

I am apparently right wing as I would vote Tory over Corbyn, that is because my fear of Corbyn is greater than my fear of May. Not much of a choice really, especially as the lib dems have become irrelevant.

The Left failed to protect "regular" people in any meaningful way from the sharp end of globalisation.

People have swung right out of desperation. The right cannot deliver for them either.

I think the poster who wants everything to get better for everyone should join the Pollyanna Party! If old enough to know what it is!

I don't recall a period in history when things have been "good" for everyone, although it is said the 1950s seemed optimistic, as long as you weren't gay or black or Asian or Irish or female or poor or sick.

Like it or not, this is statistically a golden age for health, education and equality of opportunity for more people in the developed world than ever before. But the mass media and the Internet mean that everyone knows what perfect looks like and, therefore, what they are lacking.

Why particularily posters on the right? There are, utterly bizarre I know, posters who call themselves on the left yet are pro- brexit

Exactly. Denis Skinner was for leave and I'm not convinced of the way Corbyn says he voted either

although Dan Jarvis looks able and principled, as does Keir Starmer.

I said to DH only last night the Keir has the look of a leader about him. He is younger, has an impressive background and, from a certain angle quite good looking. Although his name has an ring of German soldier about it.

Could make politics interesting.

Dan Jarvis will be the next leader imo.

Because I'm on the left and I lnow what policies I personally think would vastly improve things. Like genuinely Affordable housing for those that need or want it (I speak as a homeowner lucky enough to barely have any mortgage ...however my dc won't be afforded the same luxury and I'm not rich so won't be able to help much) . Like not privatising the NHS. Like not cutting and cutting benefits for those who need it most.

And speaking of the NHS, I genuinely do not understand why ANY people even the rich would WANT to pay for healthcare it actually blows my tiny mind

And yeah Perhaps it's naive to want things better for "everyone" but I do but As far as I understand things from my, admittedly, some what biased left wing view I cannot see how things would improve for anyone but the rich and super rich. THAT is what I would like to be challenged on, to hear alternative views.

I'm amazed at how many think characterisation of leaders by right wing press is fact! it just like hearing that 'betty is a slag' at school from soneone who hates betty, then saying seriously 'I know Betty cheats wuth lots of men' as if its a fact. Grow up, seriously!

Oh sorry that was in answer to "why posters on the right"

Heres a political trick.

I am totally against the provision of living wages, low cost housing, free education and healthcare because its a massive subsidy to business to have a healthy happy educated productive workforce for free. Businesses must be allowed to fail if their workfirce are ill, homeless and uneducated. That's why May, Osboune and Cronies are so anti state intervention, they want to see more businesses fail so that they are disproportionately wealrhy in an economically failing Britain. They are firmly and resolutely anti business, anti productivity and anti wealth.

Because I'm on the left and I lnow what policies I personally think would vastly improve things.

How would you achieve it though?

That is why Labour hasn't been 'trusted on the economy'. Lots of ideas, no costed plan that would actually work (and I say that as an ex Labour member).

Anyone can come up with ideas. It is how you would implement them that is important.

well if I knew how to achieve it I'd not be sat here on Mn I'd be prime minister. Or not....;)

I wouldn't describe the Tory government as safe, sane or sensible. They took a gamble while not realising how pissed off people were and have led us out the EU as a result. Crazy.

The left didn't fuck up the economy, IT WAS THE FUCKING BANKS THEY SHOWED YOU DOING IT ON THE FUCKING NEWS..

(to paraphrase Frankie Boyle)

I had a great time personally and economically under Labour governments. I lost my job as so many others did as institutions prepared for the age of Conservative government by making huge redundancies, paring diwn for economic hardship and citting workers rights.. its the same pattern over and over

Affordable housing is a bit of a problem form a left wing perspective, though, as one of the reasons it soared in the 00s was because of demand on houses, because of the increase in population, because ...

The Left wasn't all that leftist. They deregulated the banks. They allowed non-doms. They allowed the private rental sector to inflate while building no social housing. The introduced tuition fees. They loaded hospitals with debt via PPIs, etc.

For the last thirty years the Left and right haven't been all that distinct.

The massive range between Jeremy Corbin and Donald Trump is shocking for most of us who aren't old enough to remember anything other than the Luneral consensus.