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Original poster

To wonder why the massive right wing upsurge

296 replies

RocketQueenP · 01/02/2017 11:25

Disclaimer: I am no expert on politics clearly !! But as a woman, a mother, and working class (don't like defining myself as that but I don't earn loads and will never be rich so I am) in the 21st century I class myself as fairly left wing and vote that way myself because, if I'm honest, it's in my interests and also I want a fairer society

This isn't about Donald trump as such (the man should have his own bloody talk section!) But with Donald trump now president, the Conservatives in power in the U.K. for the second time with (it seems), no hope of that changing, why has most of the world in general just gone so right wing? Or does it just seem that way?

Again I am sorry if this is a thick question 😳 Genuinely wondering

OP posts:
scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 15:41

DJ and some of us on the Tory side were bloody furious that he had signed it.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 15:43

I think some on the left changed with social attitudes and others didn't

Old left as in Corbyn want a fairer society for all, those with a lot have a little less those with less have a little more - that worked when the working classes knew their place

But now it's different the working classes want it all (and why not) so the fairer society ideas doesn't quite get to voters in the same way but with the Thatcher and Blairs ideology you to can have what they have struck a cord and

shovetheholly · 01/02/2017 15:46

Gosh, I wish I could emulate your confident assertion of yourself cockaidal. (Not being sarcastic, it's a genuine compliment). I think I do have an inkling what 'left' means, though. I hold a PhD on left-wing radicalism in the nineteenth century and am currently writing a book in which Marx plays quite a large role. I also teach political philosophy at a Russell Group university part-time and run an academic reading group on heterodox Marxism with some quite well-known current leftwing thinkers. I actually have to attend this now so I need to bow out of this thread. Smile

baggysmalls I think that's an important point- there is a long tradition of xenophobia in Labour and the unions (grounded in an old-fashioned political economy with rather simplistic models of labour availability and wages, the protectionism of which is set against internationalism of struggle) which comes from a different place to that of blood and soil white nationalism. (I'm not saying the two can't be mixed!)

Some in Labour have conveniently ignored that, but it explains a high Leave vote in some Labour safe seats. I don't think anyone is quite certain what the effect of the Leave vote will be on party political elections. The upcoming byelections are going to be interesting.

RortyCrankle · 01/02/2017 15:46

I think the explanation as to why we do not have a left wing government is pretty obvious if you look at Labour leaders, even without considering policies.

First we had Blair, war criminal and poodle to George Bush, followed by Brown who was inept politically and financially. He sold off the country's gold reserves at rock bottom prices - yes, I know he didn't cause the worldwide recession but it was his Treasury who left a note for the incoming government to the effect that there was no money left in the pot. Next came bumbling Ed Milliband whose actions speak for themselves - he 'forgot' to mention the economy in his speech to conference in the year prior to a GE. Then comes Corbyn, divisive unelectable career politician with dodgy friends, unsupported by a good number in his own party who rebelled over 400 hundred times against Labour whips when they were in Government.

Lib Dems will never be in government (excluding as part of a coalition) and the Green party has loopy policies.

So who can be surprised that we now have a sensible, sane, safe Tory Government?

malificent7 · 01/02/2017 15:47

I do think that the rise of terroism has played a part. However, what people dont seem to grasp is that hatred of Muslims is just as bad as the extremists hatred of the west.

It's the hatred of the 'other' aka xenophobia that is most disturbing.

The world is smaller than ever before with faster transport and global communications. It should be uniting us but instead people are freaking out.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/02/2017 15:48

Yes your are right Thatcher was before Foot but I
think she gained an even bigger majority when he was leader

malificent7 · 01/02/2017 15:48

Sensible, sane safe cosying up to Trump? Really?

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:51

So who can be surprised that we now have a sensible, sane, safe Tory Government?

I'd dispute that, but then I'd dispute quite a lot of what you've said.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:52

First we had Blair, ... poodle to George Bush

Oh, the irony.

LouKout · 01/02/2017 15:53

They dont feel very safe if you are disabled.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:54

They dont feel very safe if you are disabled.

As an ex-PIP assessor who had a thread on here, I'd agree.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 15:57

Gosh, I wish I could emulate your confident assertion of yourself cockaidal. (Not being sarcastic, it's a genuine compliment). I think I do have an inkling what 'left' means, though. I hold a PhD on left-wing radicalism in the nineteenth century and am currently writing a book in which Marx plays quite a large role. I also teach political philosophy at a Russell Group university part-time and run an academic reading group on heterodox Marxism with some quite well-known current leftwing thinkers. I actually have to attend this now so I need to bow out of this thread.

Impressive; likewise not sarcastic, but a genuine compliment.

RortyCrankle · 01/02/2017 16:13

LouKout
They dont feel very safe if you are disabled.

I feel safe and I have been quite severely physically disabled for many years.

RortyCrankle · 01/02/2017 16:16

CockacidalManiac
I'd dispute that, but then I'd dispute quite a lot of what you've said.

Well if you're a left winger, of course you would but it doesn't make it less true for me.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 16:22

I feel safe and I have been quite severely physically disabled for many years.

'I'm alright, Jack'

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 16:23

Cock *First we had Blair, ... poodle to George Bush

Oh, the irony.*

Politique practique I'm afraid. If we want the US to carry on bankrolling NATO and providing a large part of the nuclear umbrella for Europe, then we need to engage with Trump and his team.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 16:23

As a carer of a severely disabled child, I agree with loukout.
Services have been cut terribly. We are going through transition to adults atm and I despair tbqh.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 16:26

And we've had a pip assessment too as the dwp thought scoliosis surgery had cured my daughter :o
Tbf, the woman who assessed her was fine but I think they'd realised she hadn't walked to the centre on her own or fetched down the magazine's on the high shelves...

RortyCrankle · 01/02/2017 16:36

CockacidalManiac
'I'm alright, Jack'

Too funny. What do you want me to say? I LIED! - the government have stopped me seeing my consultant, they will stop me having an operation next month, they have taken away my indoor walking frame and I have to roll from room to room? Of course oll of this is absurdly untrue.

I can only speak from my own experience but that's obviously not good enough, because it doesn't provide you with a stick with which to hit the Government - tough shit.

scaryteacher · 01/02/2017 16:39

It might depend where you live Rorty, as to what your experience is.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 16:42

didn't teach you much compassion, did it? Rorty

I've worked within the PIP system, I know how rotten it is, how discriminatory it is. I could only stand 4 months; I thought I could make a difference. I couldn't.

20nil · 01/02/2017 16:47

Think Dan Jarvis is being primed too. I can see why but I don't know if he's Intellectually up to it. We'll see. The lack of a credible opposition is not good for anyone.

Like a lot of people on the left, I too have serious reservations about the EU, but this is a terrible time for us to break away from it, and I'll never forgive JC and his stooges for not campaigning as hard as they should have. His worst crime, whatever you think of his ideas. is at he's simply incompetent and not up to the job. He must know that.

Owllady · 01/02/2017 16:48

Rorty, don't you think people are pleased your care and services are okay and haven't been cut? I don't think there is any need to be quite so defensive. Unfortunately most people with significant and severe disabilities are facing uncertainty and hardship. As a carer I have felt more under pressure too, I have even had to give up my job.

CockacidalManiac · 01/02/2017 16:49

Look at this long thread, Rorty
See all these people scared because of PIP?
Are they imagining it all, because of your 'safe' government?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP?pg=1&order=

LouKout · 01/02/2017 16:50

So what about the people who have had services cut Rorty?

Do they not count because they would make you feel you had to criticise the Government?