Terraced house next to an old lady who complaint about our piano playing

[Greenleave]

I have asked on the music thread although was also hoping for a wider mumsnet readers for a advice please. We had a complaint from our (lovely) old neighbor in the past when we played piano around 7.30pm since then we have never played the piano(with a sound) after 7pm(she is a nice old lady living on her own). We had another complaint today at 5.30pm that we are not considerate and "need to respect the others" and "the wall is really thin" and she cant stand the piano noise. I was told that our 9 yrs old has been playing 30mins or something in the afternoon. Is it too much? Does it mean we are not allowed to play at all. We are only home 3 afternoon a week, should I ask her if these 3 afternoons for 30mins is reasonable. We live in a terraced(although not too small) and the other neighbors have never complaint. We play some on Sundays only as we are packed with activities on Saturdays, so 30 mins 3 days a week and 1hour Sunday. What happens if she still doesnt want it(impression is she knows we have silent piano and she said we should always be on silent however we were advised by our teacher to listen to the real sound is better for her practice - the piano is an U3S-silent

Make it clear that you complied first time to be polite, but that you have the right to play your piano before 9pm and if she doesn't like it then she can complain.

We did have an electric piano in the past when she complained hence I bought this one and paid extra for the silent system. Although from your advices here it must have been the chimneys that made it worse because my first thought today ehen I was retold the story was she only plays 30mins maximum 3 days a week and yes, Sunday morning with my supervisor for 1hour or less if we are home. What a joy of living in a terraced in the city.

I think getting a piano when you live in a terrace is quite thoughtless. When dd was younger she wanted a drum kit, an acoustic set. I said no way and insisted on an electric kit and that she played on silent with headphones.

I don't understand why if your piano can be used in silent mode you don't do this. You won't move the piano, won't have it on silent....

But the electric you can turn the volume right down or use headphones so I'm not sure why you had to replace it

le the piano to be played silently using headphones.
When the silent function is activated, the hammers will no longer hit the strings and instead, a highly sophisticated sensor-technology captures all movements of the keys and sends them to the digital tone module. Play a real acoustic piano with headphones at any time, day or night without being disturbed or disturbing others. The Yamaha Silent System is unsurpassed, allowing 24hr practice as well as possessing many other features including a range of pre-installed sounds, being able to record your own performances or connecting mobile devices to use the latest Apps.

Yet, you choose not to use this function even though you know it's upsetting your neighbour?

I think people are being unfair here.
If you live in a terraced house, there will be noise.
Op says her dd is Grade 5 - it's hardly going to be unpleasant.
OP has already completely restricted her dd's playing to a ridiculous extent. She has already bent over backwards - far more than most people would do.
If its not practical to move the piano, then it's not practical. No one should have their lives dictated by a neighbour's lifestyle. Compromise works where both parties give a little - it seems the situation here is the neighbour clicks her fingers and the op is expected (by some poster) to jump.

I have lived in places where everything could have went anywhere and in others where everything had a place that couldnt be moved so I understand your problem OP.

I wonder - is it possible to put in on wheels and shift it to the middle of the room during practice and then put it back when not being used?

Couldn't she plug head phones into it. That's what a friend does and says it's fine.

Whilst it can be played in silence its different during tests and exams and, you know, playing for friends and family. Headphones only is good for later or early starts but how can you get feedback or anything like that. Its fairly horrendous to ask a child to sit and play in silence.

If this neighbour put up with 4 months of renovations without complaining then the noise must be pretty bad now. The idea of having it on wheels is a good one.

Please OP stop worrying and just let your daughter play. Even if it is reallt loud for your neighbour it is only three times a week !

She has to accept it is normal noise like babies or children etc etc.

You don't have to worry about it and your neighbour is being very unreasonable.

I don't understand why you can't use the headphones/silent mode

TBH that amount of practicing up against her wall is pretty antisocial especially as you have said yourself it can be played silently....

Thanks for being soft (and)kind to me, ofcourse, I wanted to try to put into her shoes as much as possible and consider all other options thats why I posted here and I know I have my own reasonable right to allow her to practise 30mins a day(and I count these days as lucky if you have a 9yrs old and remembers to practise). We do practise some other times however always with our headphone on. Only recently when our teacher said its important for her to hear the real sound without the headphones then she practises on Sundays without headphones for maximum 1 hour(hardly ever a continous 1hr). For some reasons, she started to practise these days in the afternoon after school too, however I was told if at most 30mins. I was thinking of it as a possitive thing until tonight. We wont practise until I speak to someone about moving the fitted bookcase, although it could be ver tricky and costly, I dont know how it could be done. And by then it will be the whole neighbourhood to hear it as the playroom is a conservatory.

OP. I'd speak to your neighbour. If you said that your daughter will only practice out loud for a max of an hour on Sunday I'd be suprised if she minded. I would much prefer that to having to listen to it at random times throughout the week. If you are happy with doing that and your neighbour is happy then you wouldn't even have to move the piano.

I bought an "eggshell" bed underlay thing made of foam and put it between my piano and the wall. It was a cheap and effective sound baffle. I would show her and take photos and document this discussion. Of course if your neighbor is this unreasonable, it may not help too much, but it will help prove you're trying if she escalates the complaint.

Just use the headphones. It's how we do it here.

It smacks me as a completely solvable 'problem'.

She's 9 and not a concert pianist just yet. She won't get tone and timbre at the moment - hearing it out loud v not alienating neighbours and earning a noise complaint is a good sacrifice to make for now.

This is similar to what I bought....

To echo what another poster mentioned earlier, you could be disturbing her favourite TV shows. Maybe negotiate a window in between her shows, coupled with the other suggestions to minimise the sound travelling.

I can believe the noise is terrible. We had a problem in a terraced house with drumming next door. When I complained they came round surprised as they had it on silent. Somehow with the wooden floor and the wall it was picking up the vibrations and managing to essentially turn our whole dividing wall into a speaker. I would ask to go around and listen to see exactly what the noise problem is. Whether it is the general noise or more likely that it is vibrating up the chimney. I would then speak to a soundproofing company and see what options you have without moving the piano. Whilst not cheap it's probably similar to ripping out fitted bookcases. I think the neighbour will not think you rude for going round just be pleased you are trying to help. It may also help if she knows when the noise is coming - otherwise she will be on tenterhooks waiting for the noise the next time.

Justilou, thanks so much, what a brilliant idea, will try it first so see if it helps.

I did consider moving to the kitchen in the past as we do have a free wall(the fridge will have to move somewhere however its movable). I although was told the heat could do it no good, and forgot that the conservatory could be hot in the summer too(even with blinds on the roofs).

To the person who suggests moving the piano upstairs, do you have any idea how heavy and difficult to move pianos are? Potentially to get it upstairs you would have to take out an upstairs window and use a crane. I think that it going over and above neighbourly duty!

If there isn't anywhere else to put it (and I do agree you shouldn't have to put it in the middle of a room or in front of a bookcase, it's not like it's a temporary thing) and you are not using the fireplace (I presume you are not if piano in front of it) then could you put loft insulation or similar inside the cavity of the fireplace and or chimney.

On the whole though, I do think your neighbour is being unreasonable, it doesn't sounds like a huge amount of practice.

Op says her dd is Grade 5 - it's hardly going to be unpleasant.
The thing is though that while playing an entire piece through from start to finish can sound lovely, if you pick out the troublesome bits and play them over and over in order to get to grips with them, it can be incredibly annoying.

My brother used to practice for about 4 hours a day and would repeat bars over and over, to the point that my DM used to have to go out for a walk to get away from it! Fortunately we lived in a detached house. But proper practice even for a short time can be jarring and not very nice to have to listen to.

But the periods of time OPs DD is practicing is very reasonable but even in a solid semi, it can sound very loud. Is there a thick rug under the piano and definitely move it away from the chimney. That really will be amplifying the sound

As a grade 5 pupil half hour three times a week is actually not enough practice.... But anyway I digress! I'm a piano teacher, did a music degree and got through it by putting on headphones on a digital piano. Not ideal but better than no practice. I do think the neighbour is being a tad unfair too. Lots of kids want to learn instruments. What would she rather? Violin (squeaky!) trumpet (soo loud!). Piano is clearly a better choice ;-) (I'm soo biased!). Happy practicing!

Op says her dd is Grade 5 - it's hardly going to be unpleasant. It wouldn't matter if it was Mozart himself. Listening to music that coming through the walls when you don't want to is always going to sound bad. The Neighbour will only be hearing 'noise' not music. Maybe just the loud or high notes?