to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

[roseshippy]

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

Also, if you're still genuinely bewildered by the outpouring, please check out the 'Academics Against Immigration Executive Order' site, which gives a much more eloquent explanation than I can. 50 Nobel Laureates and tens of thousands of US academics have signed it this weekend. If this is a hysterical irrational bandwagon, count me with them.

notoimmigrationban.com/

I agree with you OP, if the news channels are reporting incorrectly, it's rational to assume the general public also haven't all quite got the right ends of the stick! I'm sure some read and knew what they were signing, but the fact that the main news channels were a bit misguided, points to the validity of your argument.

Uh are you both arguing that people didn't read the petition before they signed? So had they read it, they wouldn't have signed? Is that the theory here?

I think some people genuinely can't understand why anyone would have a problem with Trump's actions, so come up with explanations about virtue signalling and scheming Remainers (???) instead.

The petition's main text is forty words long, and sited immediately above the 'sign this petition' button.

Cosying up the Trump is the sure road to madness. He is (probably) certifiably insane, and definitely extremely dangerous with his short temper and tantrums. No need to engage, but I'd be very scared to invite him anywhere to dinner.

You seriously think Trump's immigration policies will keep America safe, Isadora? Dream on. He's the answer to an ISIS leader's prayers - every day he's in office they recruit twice as many followers as usual.

It's each to their own, if you're not bothered then don't sign the petition, simples

This is batshit. The new immigration ruling means that anyone who holds one of the prohibited passports and does not have American citizenship is either landlocked in the US (knowing that, if they leave, there's no guarantee they can return) or locked out of the country

Many countries force you to choose what nationality you are, including GERMANY. Trump is just making people choose, either your American or your not.

If you become a naturalized citizen of Germany you must give up all other citizenship, likewise a German citizen becoming naturalized elsewhere also loses his/her German citizenship.
Just a few other countries that don't allow duel citizenship: Austria, Japan, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, India, Estonia, Poland, Japan, Poland, S.Korea, Kuwait, Denmark, Latvia, Singapore, Slovakia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Romania, Mexico, Norway, Spain(partially)... Just to name a few

So why is it batshit?

PrettyBotanicals, you have taken in the fact that this policy has been declared illegal by the US courts but also by Trump's Attorney General, haven't you? Do you seriously think that worry about that is the product of hysteria?

So to summarise FreshStartIn2017

OP: what planet are people on, to think they can ban Trump from entering the UK?
Response: The petition isn't to ban Trump entering the UK.
Rebuttal: Then people must only have signed because they thought it was to ban Trump from entering the UK.

Just because the OP has misunderstood, doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Anyway, we had exactly the same discussion last night when a different OP started a post to suggest people weren't aware what they were petitioning for - and then amended the title to 'some people'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2841696-To-think-some-people-arent-fully-aware-of-what-they-are-petitioning-for?

And I dare say we will have the same discussion again soon.

So why is it batshit?

Gosh, I guess it's totally reasonable to do this to people who are legally or permanently resident then.

I don't think you read the post you're responding to, JamieXeed74. This isn't about dual nationals. Also, why is 'GERMANY' in all caps there?

The petition has been totally discredited anyway. If you take into account the fact that one person can use multiple email addresses to add their signature, and also that many people outside the UK have signed it, I really can't imagine Trump will lose any sleep over the fact that (maybe) over 1 million people signed it, but over 60million people didn't. Do people really think that even if the UK did ban a state visit by him (highly unlikely), that he would ditch his plans to protect the borders of America, because of course he would want to appease those million signatories? Not going to happen.

I don't think you read the post you're responding to

Nonononono, you are mistaken: only signatories to the anti-State-Visit have failed to read what they are responding to.

Many countries force you to choose what nationality you are, including GERMANY. Trump is just making people choose, either your American or your not.

Again: you can't just 'choose' to have American citizenship. Unless you're born with it, you have to spend a number of years as a legal permanent resident to qualify for citizenship. That is exactly what many of the people who are now facing travel restrictions were doing.

so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

To quote Theresa May: "No deal is better than a bad deal."

Of course no-one thinks Trump will take notice of the petition, but that's not the point of the petition, is it?

Do people really think that even if the UK did ban a state visit by him (highly unlikely), that he would ditch his plans to protect the borders of America, because of course he would want to appease those million signatories? Not going to happen.

Nope. But I know the millions of people protesting this in the US are glad to see we're not all holding hands with him and pretending this is normal. And I'm glad our own politicians are being made aware of the depth of feeling. Perhaps a few of them will manage not to drop their ethics at the door as they toady up for trade deals.

This isn't about dual nationals

Not just about dual nationals but they are one affected group, eg Mo Farah. And even if you don't like the policy and its been badly implemented that doesn't mean a temporary travel restriction is batshit.

I didn't sign the petition thinking Trump would so much as notice it. I signed it to inform May that she was behaving like a craven toady. We can't affect US politicians, but I hope we can affect UK ones.

isadoradancing123 the only 'america' he will keep safe (if at all) is for the white, christian and wealthy.
You know the poem by Martin Niemoller don't you? If not, look it up. The first line begins 'First they came for the socialists..'

But I know the millions of people protesting this in the US are glad to see we're not all holding hands with him and pretending this is normal

Or he is taking the demonstrations as a sign that his policies are working, encouraging him to go further and solidifying his support base helping to keep him in power for 8 years.

Not just about dual nationals but they are one affected group, eg Mo Farah

Mo Farah isn't a dual national.

Maybe you should look up what Trump's ban actually is and who it affects, before telling other people they're wrong to object to it?

Trump is just making people choose, either your American or your not

That;s just the first step though. Next is he'll tell you if you're a real American or not, then he'll tell you that the not real anymore Americans aren't welcome anymore.....